Democracy And Corruption: Germany Files War Crimes Charges Against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld And Other CIA Officials

The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights has filed a criminal complaint against U.S. torture program architects and members of the Bush Administration. The organization has accused CIA director George Tenet and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld of war crimes and they’ve called for a German prosecutor to conduct an immediate investigation.

This move follows the release of the damning Senate report on CIA torture that includes the case of German citizen Khalid El-Masri, who was captured in 2004 by CIA agents in a case of mistaken identity. The report revealed the shocking contrast of democracy and corruption.

Bizarrely, the only person involved with the CIA torture program who has been charged with a crime is the man who exposed the war crimes — whistleblower John Kiriakou.

The relevant parties in this case have given an extensive interview to Democracy Now. Some of the important points are below.

Wolfgang Kaleck, the general secretary of the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights and the author of International Prosecution of Human Rights Crimes said this:

“By investigating members of the Bush administration, Germany can help to ensure that those responsible for abduction, abuse and illegal detention do not go unpunished.”

Michael Ratner, president emeritus of the Center for Constitutional Rights and chairman of the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights said this:

“I strongly disagree that Bush, Cheney, et al., would have a defense. This wasn’t like these memos just appeared independently from the Justice Department. These memos were facilitated by the very people Cheney, etc. who we believe should be indicted. This was part of a conspiracy so they could get away with torture. But that’s not the subject here now.

“Secondly, whatever we think of those memos, they’re of uselessness in Europe. Europe doesn’t accept this, quote, “golden shield” of a legal defense. Either it’s torture or it’s not. Either you did it or you didn’t. And that’s one of the reasons, among others, why we’re going to Europe and why we went to Europe to bring these cases through the European Center.

Ratner is the author of The Trial of Donald Rumsfeld: A Prosecution by Book.

democracy and corruption Bush Rumsfeld and Cheney

Ratner also said this:

“But, of course, you know, Cheney just showed us exactly why you have to have to prosecute torture. Because if you don’t prosecute it, the next guy down the line is going to torture again. And that’s what Cheney said: ‘I would do it again.’

From Addicting Info‘s Ryan Denson:

Khalid El-Masri was on vacation in Skopje, in Macedonia, when he was pulled off of a bus by government agents, sodomized with a drug, and taken to the secret base that was identified only as Cobalt in the CIA torture report. After four months, and after the United States learned of the mistaken identity, they left him there and continued to torture him. They held him further because the U.S. realized they had been torturing the wrong man. Afterwards, they released him, dropping him off somewhere to resume his life.

El-Masri’s comments to Democracy Nowhighlight the contrast of democracy and corruption:

[translated] I was the only one in this prison in Kabul who was actually treated slightly better than the other inmates. But it was known among the prisoners that other prisoners were constantly tortured with blasts of loud music, exposed to constant onslaughts of loud music. And they were for up to five days, they were just sort of left hanging from the ceiling, completely naked in ice-cold conditions. The man from Tanzania, whom I mentioned before, had his arm broken in three places. He had injuries, trauma to the head, and his teeth had been damaged. They also locked him up in a suitcase for long periods of time, foul-smelling suitcase that made him vomit all the time. Other people experienced forms of torture whereby their heads were being pushed down and held under water.

“And let me just say, Germany whatever happened before, between the NSA spying on Germany and the fact that their citizen has now been revealed to have been kept in a torture place, when it was known that he was innocent, I’m pretty sure that Germany is going to take this very seriously.

We need to throw our full support behind this investigation and our government and the Obama administration needs to not impede it in any way. This is a harsh indictment of our hypocrisy as a nation when it comes to democracy and corruption.

You can read the entire transcript at Democracy Now. I found this story by Ryan Denson atAddicting Info

Sex Tips 69 Cover FINAL

democracy and corruption

About Tiffany Willis

Tiffany Willis is a fifth-generation Texan, a proponent of voluntary simplicity, a single mom, and the founder and editor-in-chief of Liberal America. An unapologetic member of the Christian Left, she has spent most of her career actively working with “the least of these" -- disadvantaged and oppressed populations, the elderly, people living in poverty, at-risk youth, and unemployed people. She is a Certified Workforce Expert with the National Workforce Institute, a NAWDP Certified Workforce Development Professional, and a certified instructor for Franklin Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens. Follow her on Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn. She also has a grossly neglected personal blog, a  Time Travel blog, a site dedicated to encouraging people to  read classic literature 15 minutes a day, and a literary quotes blog that is a labor of love. Find her somewhere and join the discussion. Click here to buy Tiff a mojito.


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  1. Chalie00 says:

    It’s about time!

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      Time for what? This is a nothing non-story. Nothing will come of this crap.

      1. Chalie00 says:

        Weren’t you happy when Clinton was impeached?

      2. Chalie00 says:

        Weren’t you happy when Clinton got impeached?

  2. Harold Nason says:

    ho ho ho

  3. baruchzed says:

    Indict, imprison, try.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      Yawn….nothing will come of this. Your deluded if you think otherwise.

      1. damama says:

        You’re (you are)

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Hand clap! Good grammar, bad assessment of the political reality of this situation. Tell you what, when a single american offical ends up in that court over this issue let me know…. It will never happen and your insane if you think otherwise.

          1. Rodrick Pittman says:

            u b fun-e!

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              ….and correct! 😛

          2. ChiRockChef says:

            “Yawn, again that is deluided thinking.”, “a story on a leftest website.” PepperPatriot. Great spelling 😉

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              Grammar of someone dyslexic, Political sense of a left wing nut case that is deluded. I am guilty of one and your guilty of the other. 😛 Nothing will come of this stupid story…. You are would have to be beyond stupid and/or Insane to think otherwise.

  4. Joe Clark says:

    this is symbolic and meaningless. It’s a feel good move with no teeth. The best thing that could happen is that the U.S abandons future torture programs and focuses on getting better intel on the ground. we need spies, bottom line. period. exclamation point.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      Exactly, it is laughable and sad. …worst part it makes a mockery of real torture such as what is being done by ISIS right now.

      1. Joe Clark says:

        I think you misread. I do think they are guilty as hell of torture. But, probably no more guilty than just about all of our allies including the UN of human rights violations. It’s simply a political stunt with no teeth because they would not try to arrest any of those men even if they were touring in Germany. It’s a joke and a sham. And Americans would react very violently if they tried it. In essence they are above their laws.

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          You can think they are guilty or innocent. Does not matter, what you call ‘above the their laws’ i would describe as protected from random kangaroo courts. The US justice department has assessed no crimes committed, US courts are the only one that can or should be able to address the issue. We cant have leftest courts around the world have any authority here. Thank goodness they don’t.

          1. LoveYourDNA says:

            Of course our courts are going to protect them. Just like the prosecutors who are protecting bad cops!

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              The courts done need to do anything the holder justice department has already said no crimes committed no charges will be filled. That is the end of it, the rest is just a circle jerk by the left.

            2. Kevin Sisson says:

              will you get off holders tip dude? he’s bought and paid for as well…

          2. Rodrick Pittman says:

            Let the guilt or innocence of these jerks be determined in The Hague. They don’t have grand juries there. Maybe my daughter will sit as a magistrate.

        2. Americans would react violently if they were arrested in Germany? Dude, what have you been smoking?

          1. Kevin Sisson says:

            no, he’s really right. millions of americans. mainly the ones who voted in gw. (TWICE) will go batshit crazy. unfortunately… too bad.
            peppers will lead the marsh…

          2. Joe Clark says:

            I’ve been paying attention and I don’t smoke. Outside your bubble there are those who think differently than you. I know it’s a shocking claim but I guarantee it’s true. And the number in the Millions.

            1. Millions of morons then?

      2. KCDems Are Inconsequential says:

        It’s only torture if the victims are white people? Americans? Westerners? What a depraved, sick individual you are. Revolting. Absolutely revolting. Shame on you.

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Your assumptions are laughable. As someone that is a self-described ‘MUTT’ who has a very has over a half dozen nationalities in me that I know of, to think race played a role in my argument says more about you than anything. My assessment is that it was not torture, my assessment would have been no different do to the nationality or race of detainee. Try again.

          1. LoveYourDNA says:

            You better stop while you’re ahead. You’re so overly exuberant in your opinions you’re not even able to write coherent sentences now…

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              Well, if I become totally incoherent I can join the left and fit right in! I just have to also give up all rationality and perspective. 😛

      3. Rodrick Pittman says:

        Typical RWNJ placing blame on someone else…..Look at what they are doing over there! The old misdirection. i hope that this movement pick up steam.

    2. ljkolnick says:

      That attitude, if taken in general as true, is self-fulfilling. Every person has power. It depends on how many (and of course many other factors, including their individual powers and influences) take up the fight against injustice.

      1. PepperPatriot says:

        Yawn, the justice department has already said no charges and no crime. This story is a joke and nothing will come of it. Injustice? Trying to defame those that withing the law did what they could to protect the citizens of their country in some bat shit crazy forum/court in another country is injustices. The left has no shame.

    3. resolute says:

      You say “The best thing that could happen is that the U.S abandons future torture programs and focuses on getting better intel on the ground.” as if that’s a a little thing? Isn’t that the entire point?

  5. Terry Miller says:

    lets gather money for plane tickets and send them over to Germany along with a public defender..after a brief layover in Iraq for fuel…

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      It is laughable if you think this is joke is even newsworthy. Nothing will come of it. Laughable waste of time. Silly leftists.

      1. Rodrick Pittman says:

        Laughable until it happens. Almost like having a black man in the white house. Remember those days?

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Yawn, again that is deluided thinking. A norm for the left I know…but, the only thing more silly than this story is those stupid enough to think it has a zero chance in hell of being anything other than what it is….a story on a leftest website.

          1. John Baker says:

            Deluded thinking is better than no thinking at all – which is pretty much the norm for the right.

            1. Jim says:

              See my post above.

          2. Rodrick Pittman says:

            Well cockadoodledoo! Sounds like something is coming home to roost. Don’t be afraid Pepper or should i call you salt? Not that many people of color are a part of your patriot group. Your tag gives you away. (Easy button sound goes here) Nevertheless, the world will make that decision and if they have to go oh well! We, the US, must hold our selves to our own standards. If not, we are only hypocrites. Meditate on that one.

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              More drivel. The world, history, the European kangaroo courts and the UN can all have their opinions. But, the European left can get bent, they have no authority and reach. Why, because they dont do anything. They are not world leaders, they are followers. When their is a real problem who does the heavy lifting? The US does it. Those kangaroo courts have zero reach into the US, and the american legal system ie the justice department under this administration has already concluded no crimes committed. So, you can continue to masturbate to the idea that some European court will drag the US political figures you demonize in all you want. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

            2. Rodrick Pittman says:

              And there lies the problem with RWNJ’s. Hell bent on the belief that the world is flat and the universe revolves around you. Drivel, inaction, unproductive, lazy, judgmental, self-centered are but a few accurate descriptions that describe folks like you Pep. Don’t blame me, its the other guys fault.. “I feared for my life”, “Stand your ground!”, “Don’t tread on Me”, “This land is my land”, “those laws were meant for those people not us!”, “White Power”, “We rule the world”, “Go back to your own country”, “Those kangaroo courts have zero reach into the US.” When the world outside the bubble that you live in gains momentum and the hammer comes down for those that have committed crimes against humanity, it will be the world that levies the punishment. Lay off the Fox and try wearing something other than a sheet.

            3. PepperPatriot says:

              So much delusion and hate… Are you really that insane that you think that court will ever do anything to US officials or operatives for the legal and sanctioned actions interrogating terrorists? Tell me in your alternate reality when is this going to happen? Next month, next year, in a decade? Tell me when a European court is going to violate US sovereignty and law and try and abduct and try a US official. Hell such an act would be an act of war. You think Germany is going to do that? Piff!!!! Whatever your smoking, you might want to give it arrest. All this is, Simple posturing by anti-american leftists, nothing more.

            4. glezzery says:

              WTF are talking about!? You are a prime candidate for fake documentaries and nonsense like Prison Planet. You probably hang out with ELF members and talk about Bilderburg and WTC building 7. You probably listen to Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura. You are so dumb you believe these conspiracies actually exist when the Gubbmint can’t keep ANYTHING that secret. You are a bullshitter and leftist goon.

            5. glezzery says:

              Flat Earth and Fox News…is that your argument!? Sorry to inform you but folks aren’t going to be dupes and dummies just because you wish it were so.

            6. Rod Pittman says:

              Still funny dude! I must have insulted your Faux news. No, The US was sold out by Snowden. All in an attempt to impeach President Obama. Google it!

            7. Tom says:

              We aren’t that much of a world power anymore, bub. Don’t know how to tell you other than to be straight with you. China will overtake us in a few years. If they saddle up with Europe/Russia, you will be shitting your pants.

            8. PepperPatriot says:

              …and it will mean what regarding this story? Nothing will come of this crap story, its posturing and theater by leftists that hate american, nothing more. …a joke.

            9. Kevin Sisson says:

              it will never happen because these luciferian henchmen will NEVER step out side
              of their precious USA! ever again…
              Thank God bohemian groves is here in california..( they will thank moloch)

            10. Kevin Sisson says:

              IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN because that administration will never step foot outside the u.s. you want kangaroo?? how about the u.s. justice dept… we have a corporatocracy, we are owned by the very outsider foreign interests we were warned about by our forefathers. america will be destroyed from within. and you and your like minded individuals will be so shaken up when you realize that your ‘core values’ were created to brainwash you (successfully so ) that you will be ratting out any and everyone to save your pathetic lives . remember that’s what happened during the nazi take over. i know that no matter what i say, you are stuck in you brainwashed mindset and i am wasting my breath, but!, i have to call people out like you and glezzery for your mind controlled thoughts because you are as dangerous to this society as the politicians you represent are…
              suck on that…:)

          3. GlobalPatriot says:

            PP – You just go on getting your world news through the Fox network and missing out on what actually happens. This ain’t about left or right. This is about decency, crime and consequences under international law.

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              You think it was indecent, that is find your welcome to your opinion. I frankly dont, I see it as both legal and called for at the time under US law. I personally think doing anything less would have been indecent at the time. But, what you or I think is mute….the US justice department has already said no crimes committed and no charges will be filled for enhanced interrogation. As for international law? Piff…..give me a break. They have no authority, no reach and no teeth. They are not going to do anything, but posture. You know that, or you are clueless.

        2. glezzery says:

          Wow, liberal brain cramps. Do any of you actually have a working logical reasoning center in your noggin? The report is a joke and the Senators involved are liars. There was never any intention to TORTURE anyone. This is about harsh interrogation techniques for High Value WAR CRIMINALS. Do you get that!? In a situation brand new and untried during a National Emergency. You folks cannot make any points without lying about people and their intents, demonizing Bush as Hitler and Cheney as Darth Vader. You are FOOLS and no one in their right minds follows you. This is nothing more than political nonsense aimed at Bush and the Right. You folks are just sanctimonious self righteous windbags like Rosie ODonnell. Laughable. You know, there are REAL enemies and bad guys out there, just take a look.

          1. John Baker says:

            You keep drinking that Faux Noise Kool-Aid, and we’ll keep laughing at your stupidity.

            1. Randy says:

              “Faux Noise Kool-Aid”? Did you make that up yourself? Of course not, I’ve seen it 1,000s of times. Have you ever had one original thought of your own? Ever?

              I’d relax using the word “stupidity” if I were you. Oh, and btw, I do not watch fox “news” or any other corrupt, corporate-owned, propaganda-pushing American “news” channel. Free from cable TV for four years now. Highly recommended.

            2. patriot_act says:

              WHO in the hell cares?

            3. Randy says:

              Evidently, I do or wouldn’t have asked questions or said anything. Do you always have difficulty figuring things out for yourself and keeping up, in general?

            4. Raymond Davis says:

              Yes Randy she claims this article isn’t worth looking at and yet appears to have not only read it but has spent quite a long time in the comments. Definitely NOT the sharpest Hoe in the shed

            5. PepperPatriot says:

              I guess the Holder run justice department is drinking the same huh? Considering they have also concluded no crimes committed and that charges will never be filed for enhanced interrogations post 9/11. All this story is for is to give far left types that are out of their minds something to masturbate too.

            6. xnerd says:

              enhanced.. LOL! These fuckers are going to burn in hell and not for torture.

            7. PepperPatriot says:

              ….well, good luck with that long shot too!

            8. dottie11 says:

              Holder doesn’t work for the German Govt. Germany can do it’s own investigation, and charge accordingly, and convict if the investigation reveals what it considers war crimes. Sometimes many, many years go by, and finally a tyrant is indeed tried for crimes against Humanity, and war crimes, and is exposed to the world, and held accountable for his, or her part played in these crimes. If you doubt it, look into those Nazi’s that were finally brought to justice at the ages of 80, or 90.

            9. PepperPatriot says:

              Yawn….nothing will come of this. Germany will never try and grab former administration of the US. If you think that would or could ever happen, your insane. You think Germany would risk such a conflict with the US? PLEASE. This is just masturbating of some members of the US hating left in Europe. Wake up.
              Nevermind the fact, IMO there was no crimes… It does not matter in regards to this.

            10. Michael Cashaw says:

              Germany does not have to try and grab someone convicted. Once they are convicted, they will have a warrant issued for their arrest, and signatures to the World Court will be compelled to turn them over. Now, I know that if they are convicted, the US would never turn them over, but there is the chance that if any travel abroad, then the warrant could be exicuted. So then how does it look that the Law & Order country, and ex-President, do not want to summit to Law & Order?

            11. PepperPatriot says:

              …and what became of this nothing nada zip! I said it was leftist masturbation then and nine months later guess what? Nothing was born it!

            12. Michael Cashaw says:

              Patience, but yes, it might never happen.

            13. penny0314 says:

              And just who found that? Perhaps the perpetrators trying the perpetrators.

            14. Raymond Davis says:

              Waste of time and Silly …AND YET HERE YOU ARE AGAIN> It would appear you have nothing productive to do with your life

            15. PepperPatriot says:

              Did you realize you just replied to post was almost a year old(9 months)? And while I actually have many things that are productive to do, I can always take out a moment of my day to laugh at an idiot. By the way noticed that this article will soon be a year old with no update, surprise surprise surprise! I called it then it’s just a crock of shiit left wing masturbation.

            16. Bob P says:

              John, you are my favorite Post. You took a story that has so Twisted the Truth and use it to attack Fox Viewers. If you actually looked into this.. You would find this is a suit filed by an American Lawyer in Germany. Go ahead. research it.. This story is filled with Lies..

            17. Dale Mulkey says:

              Just like you and your party of scum

            18. Bud Humelsine says:

              The question is, what do you call news?

          2. Aaron Boone says:

            So many words to say absolutely nothing.

          3. Von Bailey says:

            And you are apparently totally ignorant of US hIstory. Can you explain why when US Soldiers were water-boarded it was called torture by the US, but when the US tortures it’s not torture. Try and explain it without sounding like a hypocritical jerk. The idea that torture is “a situation brand new” is incredibly obtuse or ignorant.

            BTW, I don’t need to use Hitler to demonize Bush & Cheney. I can use their names, as they’ve sullied them enough so that people will make the association without much effort at all if they have a thinking brain.

            1. Daniel Smith says:

              I think the US, ignorance and arrogance go hand in hand.

            2. glezzery says:

              Fuck you. You are the one who is ignorant arrogant and stupid. You have never served the American experience of freedom, you fruitcake. You have never carried a SAW when a Communist Soviet nation was just across the border. You know the value of ZERO. You are a putz, a lowlife, a critic. Fuck you. America is still going despite your sorry ass.

            3. xnerd says:

              I have you fuck hat.
              I watched a film clip from my brother in laws unit burying iraqis alive with bulldozers
              FUCK OFF if you really served you would not be saying shit.

            4. Daniel Smith says:

              First of all, I’m British. So we experience the same freedoms you do. Second of all, are you a comedian? Communism is a perfectly legitimate form of society

            5. Guest says:

              How’s your freedom to own guns working out for you? Just saying.

            6. Daniel Smith says:

              Why would I or anyone else want to own a gun? That isn’t freedom, it’s stupidity of the highest level from the American government. There should be a complete ban on guns in the US.

            7. Cris Friar says:

              If you live in Montana or a rural state you do need a rifle for cougars and bears and other dangers. however I’m totally against hand guns of any kind.

            8. Von Bailey says:

              Native Americans survived for centuries without a rifle in the area you are talking about with those same animals roaming around in much larger numbers. The only difference is that non-Native Americans are in that area now. That’s the only thing that makes any firearm “necessary”.

            9. Daniel Smith says:

              Maybe I should rephrase what I said…people like you in the US go hand in hand with ignorance and arrogance.

            10. Jhen says:

              Hey since we’re generalizing, why don’t we go ahead and talk about how all the French only eat pastries, all Italians only drink espresso, and all asians eat noodles.

              If you think that everybody within a country fits the countries “stereotype” it’s only because you are brainwashed yourself.

            11. Daniel Smith says:

              Maybe you should read the comment you replied to. I quite clearly refer to the individual, as opposed to all Americans.

            12. Guest says:

              Maybe you should read the comment you replied to…I clearly relate to the individual and US Governments attitude towards treating people. Clearly, I made the mistake of stereotyping originally, but corrected myself with the comment you responded to.

            13. patriot_act says:

              Having spent three years in the Army, I can kindly say “Fuck the FUCK OFF”

            14. Bud Humelsine says:


            15. Dale Mulkey says:

              And your a disgusting waste of flesh that should be expelled and never allowed to return

            16. ilias Sourdis says:

              I did military service too in my country and I can tell you that you were used as a tool to execute decisions and policies imposed on your senators and congressmen by Lobbyists groups like AIPAC and others.
              If you have any doubt on what I mean, monitor your internal debate in your country about the Iran Nuclear Deal. The fascists in the conservative Republican party converted themselves into soldiers of AIPAC and Israel to kill the deal and send you in Iran to kill innocent Iranians who did ABSOLUTELY no harm to you.
              In short, you are the one whose human values are Fucked Up.

            17. PepperPatriot says:

              Leftist Anti-american A-hole….not original.

            18. patriot_act says:

              Was the name PussyPatriot already taken?

            19. PepperPatriot says:

              I assume that was your other nic!

          4. Jim says:

            I am more conservative in nature, but neither right or left, and what you just spewed out is just as vile as the torture these guys perpetrated on real, live, human beings.

            Psychology has already proven that torture only helps…NOTHING.

            Reciprocity (social psychology)

            Reciprocity in social psychology refers to responding to a positive action with another positive action, rewarding kind actions. As a social construct, reciprocity means that
            in response to friendly actions, people are frequently much nicer and much more cooperative than predicted by the self-interest model; conversely, in response to hostile actions they are frequently much more nasty and even brutal.

            Did you catch that last sentence? All torture does in reinforce their resolve to fight us.

            You also need an education in ethics, it states the same.

            To me, the left and the right are one and the same…morons. It’s still going on…you can bet your life on it, which means Obama is guilty too, it just hasn’t come out yet. Why is the Obama Admin and the Justice Dept. not charging them? Because they are doing it too. How stupid can people be?

            Why are liberals not after him? Both sides are hypocrites.

            Here is the root of the problem as exposed by Carol Quigly, the mentor of Clinton.

            “The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy”

            Georgetown University Professor Carroll Quigley,

            More specifically:

            “of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers.”

            The Right is the “doctrinaire” that means indoctrinated for the ones less educated.

            The Left is the “academic thinkers”. That is the book smart, but dumb as a hammer when it comes to common sense and wisdom.

            It’s the oldest trick in the book. Divide and …well, you know the rest.

            Hey….that’s almost everyone writing comments.

            1. Von Bailey says:

              Well, aside from the unjustified condescension all over your rant, I want to address this:

              “To me, the left and the right are one and the same…morons. It’s still
              going on…you can bet your life on it, which means Obama is guilty too,
              it just hasn’t come out yet. Why is the Obama Admin and the Justice
              Dept. not charging them? Because they are doing it too. How stupid can
              people be?”

              You have evidence of this torture on the part of the current president or are you simply making assumptions to facilitate the premise of your comment? If you don’t have evidence, then you’ve simply bought into the incredibly stupid concept of an equivalence to the ineptitude and disgusting actions of the two parties.

            2. Jim says:

              You just validated every point I made in my “Rant”.

              “Read my lips, no new taxes”

              “Saddam has WMD’s”

              “I will close gitmo as soon as I take office”

              These are just a few, so what are you…a child? Why do you continue to trust politicians?

              Let me make this as simple as possible. If every politician in your lifetime has been caught in multiple lies, what would make anyone think otherwise?

              Will a junkie look for drugs anytime they have a chance? Will a prostitute do a trick for money? Will a politician do evil and lie to cover it up? You tell me.

              If I slapped the taste out of your mouth every time I walked by, would you continue to offer the opportunity?

              Even a child avoids liars after about the 3rd time they catch them. Obama has lied too many times to count thus far, just as his predecessors. He has broken ever law he could and continues to this day. He has covered up issues, lied to the people at least 100 times thus far and yet you continue to worship him? What are you smoking on? You should really stop that.

              The truth will come out and nothing will happen to Bush/Cheney, nor the ones in the Obama admin once it is exposed.

              I don’t have to facilitate anything…it’s well established.

              You are the poster child of the people I was speaking of.

              You place politics over integrity and are too ignorant to comprehend reality.

            3. Von Bailey says:

              “You just validated every point I made in my “Rant”.:”

              And you just lied. I did no such thing and nothing in your response demonstrates that I did anything of the kind. Where’s the EVIDENCE that Obama is still torturing. That’s your claim and all you apparently have to defend the statement is that politicians don’t keep campaign promises. That’s one of the most ridiculous trains of logic I’ve ever seen, “He lied about this so he must be doing something he hasn’t lied about.”

              Actually, that’s more delusional than ridiculous. You’ve made up a fantasy that has no manifestation in reality but insist it is reality. Yep, that’s delusional.

            4. Jim says:

              What? Are you a 1 year old who hasn’t been lied to at least 3 times? Are you suggesting that 3 year olds are better judges of character than you are?

              That’s what I thought!

            5. PepperPatriot says:

              Holder and Obama would have loved nothing more, but the truth is the justice department and the admin know the truth, no crime was commited and no charges are called for. You can hate it, you can disagree with it, but that was the call. END OF STORY. This story is all about the left trying to find a way to make what they wish was so true. Nothing will come of this, it is just the left masturbating.

            6. Jim says:

              There is no end to this story you simpleton. Torture is ILLEGAL in the US and has been longer that you’ve been breathing.

              Keep playing the left/right game, you are just as bad as the liberals you claim to hate so much, but are so much alike.

            7. PepperPatriot says:

              The story is over because it is already been determined no charges will be filed domestically, ie the only courts that matter for US officials. You can cry about it, you can insult, but no courts outside the US will ever have the reach needed to put a US officials on trial. It is just never going to happen… You really think some European kangaroo court will ever drag any of them into court? NOPE!

            8. Jim says:

              The story never ends until justice is complete. What a moron you are…your mom must be really proud.

              they will not go after them because they are GUILTY!

            9. Anon says:

              Jim, don’t waste too much time on these government trolls! Remember they get paid to do this. These criminals are going down mark my words. Hey trolls, do you have innocent blood on your hands as well? Is that why you’re frothing with venom and lies? You Are The Terrorists.

            10. Kevin Sisson says:

              shush, troll!…

            11. Von Bailey says:

              Like I said from the beginning, nothing but a rant. Where’s your EVIDENCE? Oh, you don’t need that, you have the ability to be condescending and call people names. Kind of pathetic and childish, but you apparently project your personality traits too, so totally expected.

            12. Jim says:

              It’s not a rant, it’s a probability. When there is enough circumstantial evidence, it becomes probable. Once is an accident, twice is a pattern, the third time is a program, but you are too childish to figure the program.

            13. Von Bailey says:

              What I am not is someone who changes what I said in order to appear correct. Now you are saying that the Obama Administration torturing a “probability” when you originally said, “Why is the Obama Admin and the Justice Dept. not charging them? Because they are doing it too.” That’s not saying it’s probable, that’s saying it’s happening. So you’ve changed what you said to “appear” correct, ignoring the fact that it can be easily checked by looking up the thread.

              So again, you don’t have any evidence to support your claim except that some other people did it so it’s probable that Obama could be doing it too. Some other people walked on the moon too, is Obama doing that? Your argument’s pretty pathetic, but I guess you think you’ve made some point making accusations that you have no evidence to support.

            14. Jim says:

              I reverse engineer machine learning algorithms and work with statistics and social psychology for a living, and I estimate the probability at around 99%, maybe a bit higher.

              That’s pretty strong.

              The statistics don’t lie…unlike you.

            15. Von Bailey says:

              None of that changes the fact that you claimed that the Obama Administration was torturing people and can’t prove it with a shred of evidence. You’re “probability” argument is self serving and no supported by anything except your claims that you are employed. Big deal. Either support your arguments with FACTS that are relevant to the claim (and your employment is not that) or take back your lie as any ethical person would do. Or don’t, says more about you than me.

            16. Jim says:

              I am not employed, I own the companies.

              The probabilities are based on over 100 years of known lies by presidents that were caught after the fact.

              There are now close to 300 known lies, breaking of laws, favors for big money fortune 500 companies, not including including banks by Obama that are well documented.

              I am not a republican either. I a a political atheist. I have better sense.

              So, let me ask you a question. If you were president today, would you go after the Bush Admin for Torture? If so, why?

              Logic dictates that only one of two possibilities are available since we have public admission directly from Cheney’s mouth.

              1. Obama and co. can not go after them because they are guilty too.
              2. Obama is a spineless coward while holding the most powerful position in the world..

              Neither one works out for the people they are supposed to represent and work for BY LAW.

              You choose hotshot! Either way, Obama is a dirt-bag criminal.

            17. Von Bailey says:

              Whoopie, you own the company. Does that give your list of “evidence” that has nothing to do with torture any more credibility in demonstrating that the Obama Administration is also guilty of torture? No.

              You went from an accusation of torture to a probability of torture and either ignorantly believes they are the same thing or are a very disingenuous human being who believes that no one can see you have changed your comment. Where’s the evidence to back up your original claim that the Obama Administration is guilty of torture?

              As far as your reason for him not doing anything, I have no problem with #2. He wouldn’t be the first.

            18. Jim says:

              You are not “ok” with either, you are nothing but a deluded idiot that lacks any form of common sense or logic.

              If they had the spine (as you say is possible) and investigated, they could bring up charges based on Cheney’s own public admissions, but they don’t.

              As far as owning “the” company, it’s plural idiot!, secondly, you brought it up stupid.

              Answer the questions moron.

              What logic, with many public admissions from Cheney would stop the traitorous Obama admin for starting the process of putting the Bush admin away…from top to bottom?

              I will no longer cast pearls before swine. I don’t have time to waste on people with an inflexible, yet deluded world view based on political loyalty and absent integrity…both scientific and moral.

            19. Von Bailey says:

              Pearls? I’m not okay with it because you say so? Wow, you sure think a lot of yourself don’t you? You know what I think better than I do? Do you also have a company that tells you how to read minds? FTR, you said:

              “I reverse engineer machine learning algorithms and work with statistics and social psychology for a living.”

              So I didn’t bring up what you do, you did. A pathetic attempt to make me responsible for your insertion of non-relevant information. Also, FTR, I never said Obama had a spine or would do anything about the torture program of the previous administration. All I’ve done is challenge your false claim that the Obama Administration is also torturing people. You have no evidence, just the statement that politicians lie and you own some companies that do statistical analysis. I’m not impressed with you or your feeble attempts at rationalizing your “beliefs” (i.e. claims of knowledge without evidence) as you are.

            20. glezzery says:

              YOU are the one that needs to post some evidence. If you think folks are going to hang on that bullshit released by the Senate Democrats, good luck with that. BUT BUT BUT you haven’t read the report ANYWAYS!!!! I know you haven’t. You just expect folks to believe because some report. Thing is, YOU DONT BELIEVE dozens of reports about WMD, INTEL, Information learned through the program, how important the process was, the intense dire circumstances, you are just an idiot troll who thinks he has his own info.

            21. Von Bailey says:

              No, I expect people to believe Dick Cheney, who confessed to his crimes on national television.

            22. glezzery says:

              You just keep lying and lying, about everything and anything. Are you sick?

              Just a bunch of Leftist Bush haters making shit up. You got nothing.
              I just like seeing how long you go on about things that will never happen.

            23. glezzery says:

              Every single one of these folks here crying about Torturing terrorists and claiming Eisenhower killed 6 million Germans AFTER the war are just Bush hating Leftist/DEMOCRAT/Socialist douchebags. One of these animals even called Communism a legitimate form of government. There is a factory that churns out these Statist/Democrats.

            24. Daniel Smith says:

              Too right I did. I, unlike you, have visited China on numerous occasions and it’s a flourishing country. Sure their government is black as can be, but so is the US and UK governments (both democratic). The fact is, they weren’t just torturing terrorists. There are people who were detained at Gitmo for 10 years under no charges. Many of whom, who have spoken out about their experience. What do you suspect they were doing with them? Handing out sweets.

              It’s got nothing to do with political affiliation, just pure right and wrong.

            25. Von Bailey says:

              So now I’m a liar because I don’t agree with your imagination? Did Santa tell you that?

            26. Kevin Sisson says:

              dude, obama doesn’t do shit…he’s the puppet.
              he does what he’s told.
              but the drones are illegally fucking a lot of shit up.
              including death dealing collateral damage on unsuspecting
              citizens including children…

            27. Von Bailey says:

              But then this isn’t about whether or not Obama is bombing children, it’s about whether or not members of the Bush Administration should be prosecuted for their crimes. I’m curious as to why, whenever a white person is accused of a crime, if a black person has also been accused of a crime it too must be discussed.

            28. Kevin Sisson says:

              you asked if the obama admin. is still carrying out torture. and i say ‘yes’.
              there’s your evidence,
              i’m answering your off the topic question.
              and, whatever you’re curious about flat out doesn’t make any sense…

            29. Von Bailey says:

              Saying “yes” is not evidence that the Obama administration is torture g anyone. The fact that drones are killing children is not evidence of torture either. That’s not even a nice try, it’s a pathetic grasp at best.

            30. Kevin Sisson says:

              you don’t think that killing and maiming aren’t torturous?
              i really don’t know what the fuck you are reaching for.
              you think that guantanamo bay is a bed of roses for the detainees there.
              what is the answer that you want.
              don’t say ‘evidence’. i’m not going to research shit for you.
              get off this site and hit up a search engine.

            31. Von Bailey says:

              No I don’t, I think it’s a terrorist act and quantitatively different than creating a program and giving specific orders to do mentally or physical damage to someone. That is obvious to anyone of sufficient intelligence and honest thinking process. There is a difference between what Obama is doing and what the Bush Admin did. One doesn’t mitigate the other in the least.

            32. Kevin Sisson says:

              so now, your take on gitmo…

            33. Von Bailey says:

              I don’t know it so I have no opinion one way or another. I know that they were ordered to stop and that the Obama administration has been trying to shut down gitmo against the strong objections of Republicans in Congress. If you have memos or a high level member of the Obama administration comes out and confesses come back and bring it. Otherwise I’d like to focus on the crimes we have e evidence and a confession on national television.

            34. Kevin Sisson says:

              then quit asking for evidence on off the topic shit,dude.

            35. Von Bailey says:

              I didn’t, you just jumped into a conversation without knowing the context. The person I was responding to said that Obama was also torturing and I asked him where the evidence to support that comment was and then you chimed in without reading what I was responding to.

            36. Kevin Sisson says:

              dude, you have asked for evidence about obama torturing at least four times!
              i read it all. jim tried to answer you. using statstics, common sense, whatever.
              and you still want ‘EVIDENCE’. you still want some one else to give you your evidence for you?
              just type in your search engine, ” is torture still going on in gitmo.
              you won’t believe any of what it will tell you anyway.
              so, no more time to interact with you.
              have a good day, mang…

            37. Von Bailey says:

              I asked for evidence several times because he kept saying he gave it and never did. Thus demonstrating that he lied in the beginning about the torture and could not supply anything that demonstrated that the Obama Administration tortures.

              You, of course, are being disingenuous as there is nothing close to what went on with the Bush Administration (i.e. state sanctioned torture by the leader of the free world) going on now. You are simply making the same false equivalency arguments that most of the uninformed fall into and base your comments on the same flimsy rumors as others. Not trying to change your minds, just pointing out to the rest of the world that you’re wrong. You can’t provide evidence any more than Jim could as if you could you wouldn’t be trying to send me off on some worthless internet search for ambiguous references, but would provide specific sites that demonstrate your veracity.

              You can’t, so you don’t and then blame me for your inability to back up your words. Very common on the internet. You aren’t alone.

            38. Kevin Sisson says:

              they still torture, but not enough to be put in the same league as the former admin.
              worthless internet search??.where do want the evidence from?
              a personally hand written notarized letter from a gitmo?
              the ‘worthless’ internet search took about ten seconds.
              you have already written that off as worthless tho, without looking into it.
              provide yourself with your own specific site to debunk what i’m saying…
              until then..
              later kook!…

            39. Von Bailey says:

              So you make a claim about a letter but like Jim, provide nothing to substantiate it.. No cite, no name, just because you say so. Like I’ve already said, very common on the Internet. A group of people who apparently got through school on something besides merit and think they are providing something of substance because they’ve never really been challenged. Now your on the Internet and don’t seem to be aware of how to make a coherent argument to back up your comments.

              I blame it on the educational system.

            40. glezzery says:

              Saddam DID have WMDs. They were documented by the UN and Hans Blix was there looking for them. The bulk were never found but existed. How about some actual FACTS!? People are allergic to the truth for some reason.

            41. Jim says:

              Were you aware that a .50 cal machine gun is a WMD by definition? Not the sharpest too in the shed…are ya boy!

              There were NO WMD’s in the capacity they claimed and that is not disputed, you’re just one of the idiots that buys anything at face value.

            42. glezzery says:

              You are a liar. There were tons being STORED in Iraq, documented, not destroyed, that were removed after the invasion. You are ignorant. You haven’t read the NYTimes coverage of all the WMDs turning up and all the casualties! We have hundreds of US troops injured by Blister, Nerve agents in Iraq. WHAT do you think Blix was looking for?! Too bad you are such a shallow fraud.

            43. glezzery says:

              “According to reports from the previous UN inspection agency, UNSCOM,
              Iraq produced 600 metric tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, VX and sarin,
              and nearly 25,000 rockets and 15,000 artillery shells, with chemical
              agents, that are still unaccounted for. In fact, in 1995, Iraq told the
              United Nations that it had produced at least 30,000 liters of biological
              agents, including anthrax and other toxins it could put on missiles,
              but that all of it had been destroyed.”

            44. glezzery says:

              Like i was saying, you are a liar!
              NBC – “updated 7/5/2008 6:57:12 PM ET
              The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program — a
              huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port
              Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week
              airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

              The removal of 550 metric tons of “yellowcake” — the seed material
              for higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward
              closing the books on Saddam’s nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to
              U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach
              insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.”

            45. J. R. Acton III says:

              You make some interesting points. Your astute interpretation of our political party paradigm largely mirrors my own, as does some of your position vis-à-vis the Second Gulf War. Nevertheless, I am less than confident in some of the conclusions drawn from your obviously-wide engagement in research; I would posit that you have placed undue faith in some less-than-reputable sources in founding portions of your position. And, unfortunately, some of your assertions are simply incorrect. For instance, if you truly believe that “a sovereign nation that had NEVER fired a shot at us in any manner..”, I would invite your attention to Operations Provide Comfort, Northern Watch, Southern Watch, and Desert Fox (amongst others). Veterans of these operations, military documents, and press coverage of the time (scanty though it was in many cases) do not support such an assertion.

            46. Jay F says:

              The only weapons found were from the Cold War. It’s questionable if they were even usable. But warmongers can find any excuse to spend $4 Trillion on a war.
              Especially when the VP profits $35 Million via his owning of Haliburton through said war.

            47. Kevin Sisson says:

              you’re talking about the ones we gave him right?

            48. Jay F says:

              The one single “informant” later admitted in front of a panel of congress members that he was mad and wanted to see Saddam taken out. Yes, we were simply looking for a reason to finish off Daddy Bush’s war, they heard WOMD and let the missiles, troops, and $4 Trillion fly.
              But I’m sure you are going to also say it was just coincidence that Cheney profited $35 Million through Haliburton off going to war as well?

              Try again.

            49. Kevin Sisson says:

              the administration in charge is too busy killing innocent people including children with drones..
              is that torturous enough?
              republicans and democrats are just window dressing to keep us divided.
              presidents are puppets only,
              and we are being fucked over systematically unfortunately most of us are too stupid to realize this.
              very unfortunately…

            50. Von Bailey says:

              If Obama is breaking the law with impeachable offenses, then bring them up too and impeach him. I’m not sure what that has to do with the Bush Admin being brought up on charges of war crimes. It’s like when a white person commits a crime in the US white people have to bring up crimes that black people commit to as if it mitigates the crimes of the white person.

            51. Kevin Sisson says:

              thanx jim, couldn’t have said it any better than that…

          5. Dan Summers says:

            The USA broke it’s own laws and promises. The US agreed to the Geneva Accord and Ratifiedf Protocol III(The one that forbids torture).
            If the US government will not keep it’s own word, if it will break it’s own laws when it suits them…why should anyone trust anything the US government says ever again?

            These were human rights abuses…yet the US Government thinks they can talk down to China over it’s abuses when they do the same thing?
            If these are Criminals…War Criminals or not…they still are entitled to trial and the ability to address the charges and prove their innocence. They gve that same right to Nazi War Criminals(Except those they willingly brought over during project Paperclip).
            If you think it is okay to torture people then I guess what they do over there to US troops the capture is perfectly okay. If you say Rectal Feeding is okay for the US to do to people, then if ISIS did similar things to US troops that is not torture either.

            And also that Torture has never produced any intelligence of worth.

            1. glezzery says:

              For your uninformed information, the Geneva Conventions apply ONLY to Lawful Combatants of SIGNED participants, you MORON! FFS Leftists are all so STUPID! I dont know why anyone even listens to these idiots. Geneva is designed to protect HONORABLE SOLDIER of signed states in recognized conflicts. It is designed to protect citizens drafted to fight, not WAR CRIMINALS.

            2. glezzery says:

              US broke it’s own laws… that is the DUMBEST shit i have seen in weeks!

            3. glezzery says:

              Rectal Feeding!? That never happened, Mother Jones! As for the rest, please NAME ALL the ILLEGAL procedures claimed in the Senate report, which is political hackery! I bet you cannot because you are a typical Leftist moron.

            4. Kevin Sisson says:

              cheney admitted to doing this. but right now the rectal feeding is coming right out of your mouth, friend…

            5. glezzery says:

              Oh shut the fuck with your accusations of good people here, some who are veterans ASSHOLE. You sanctimonious self righteous stooge, you dont even know WHAT the Geneva Conv. says. You are uninformed, as usual. So STFU!

            6. Jim says:

              I know what it says, I am a vet, but you are arguing over a legal definition that was WRITTEN to get around the intent of the convention…and our laws, just as used in Germany when we killed over 6 million Germans after their surrender…thanks to Eisenhower.

              Learn to take the high road moron.

            7. glezzery says:

              “Germany when we killed over 6 million Germans after their surrender” What are you a psycho-prevaricator!? You must be some insane person to accuse the US of killing 6 million Germans after surrender!? WTF!?

            8. Jim says:

              Do a search for “Eisenhower’s Rhine-Meadows Death Camps” and watch the documentary. Then look up the documentation from around the world that you lean about there, the UN and even the US.

              More legal definition manipulations. It’s all documented moron.

              I am not insane, you’re just ignorant and showing it off for all to see. You are nothing but an ignorant and willfully blind buffoon.

              Learn to research buffoon.

            9. glezzery says:

              No one cares about your Hind sight bullshit. You are an armchair critic, so what!? It was a WORLD WAR where 100 million people were killed and entire cultures were destroyed, asshole. Do you not get it!? Do you have any common sense? We were trying to DESTROY GERMANY and tried our best to rebuild it. WE DIDNT START THE WAR! If the Germans didn;t WANT SHIT they shouldn’t have started shit! Now, go to your little room and cast your smug safe little world on history!!!!

            10. Jim says:

              You seriously;y need to learn to read and research, you’re dumb as a hammer. Germany would not consent to a private central banking system. You’re a F-ing moron.

            11. glezzery says:

              You posted some books you haven’t even read. Alfred-Maurice de Zayas’s books deal with the ethnic cleansing BY GERMANS and also the killing GERMANS BY THE SOVIETS in EASTERN GERMANY AND EUROPE! Nothing to do with Eisenhower!

            12. glezzery says:

              I can smell a fraud a mile away! Eisenhower and the US killed (intentionally!?!) SIX MILLION GERMANS after the war ended!!!! Bullshit.

            13. Maybe? says:

              You would not even smell the fist of an enemy if it was crammed right up your nose. You’re too stupid to research beyond the capacity of you small, minute brain.

            14. Maybe? says:

              You need to do more research stupid.

            15. Boves Bova says:

              9/11 was an insides jooooooobbbbb11!!!!!11!1!1 The moon landing took place in Hollywooood!1!!!!! The Holocaust never even happened!!!11!!! These are all documentaries so they must be trewwwwwwwww!!!1111!!!!!

            16. Maybe? says:

              Ahhh, so you believe 19 hijackers took planes in the US, the one that hit the pentagon was up and known as hijacked for 39 minutes and circled the Pentagon in the most guarded airspace in the world and was able to attack the head of ALL of our military, and you insinuate I am stupid or nuts?

              What are you smoking? It must be very powerful to fry your brain that bad. You do know that drugs are bad for you…right?

            17. Boves Bova says:

              Since I worked in Arlington at the time of this, yes, I can honestly say it happened and that you have likely consumed more drugs than you can handle which has made you entirely to susceptible to manipulation. Enjoy the rest of your paranoid life.

            18. Maybe? says:

              Just because you work in the area does not dismiss your ignorance and lack of reality and reason. Look up how many intercepts in 2001 PRIOR to 9-11, and then on 9-11, no planes even took to the air with almost 3/4 of an hour to respond?

              You’re a crackhead.

            19. glezzery says:

              A simple google to Wiki shows German deaths in camps after the war ended at 3’000 to 10’000 of two million. Frankly, who had the resources to keep them in better health!? The morale, don’t invade your neighbors, start WWII and murder tens of miliions of ethnic civilians IF YOU DONT WANT SHIT! What kind of person mourns the aggressor at the end of a war when 100 million people perished!?!?!

            20. Jim says:

              “Frankly, who had the resources to keep them in better health!?

              Go read Moron. Maybe you will understand without me spelling it out for you one bite at a time like a 2 year old.

              James Bacque, Crimes and Mercies: The Fate of German Civilians Under Allied Occupation, 1944-1950 (Toronto: Little, Brown and Co., 1997)

              James Bacque, Other Losses: An investigation into the mass deaths
              of German prisoners at the hands of the French and Americans after World
              War II (Toronto: Stoddart, 1989)

              Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, Nemesis at Postsdam (Lincoln, Neb.: 1990)

              Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, A Terrible Revenge: The Ethnic Cleansing of the Eastern European Germans, 1944-1950 (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1994)

              John Dietrich, The Morgenthau Plan: Soviet Influence on American Postwar Policy (New York: Algora, 2002)

              Ralph Franklin Keeling, Gruesome Harvest: The Allies’ Postwar War Against the German People (IHR, 1992). Originally published in Chicago in 1947.

              Giles MacDonogh, After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation (New York: Basic Books, 2007)

              John Sack, An Eye for an Eye: The Story of Jews Who Sought Revenge for the Holocaust (2000)
              Mark Weber, “New Book Details Mass Killings and Brutal Mistreatment of Germans at the End of World War Two” (Summer 2007)

            21. glezzery says:

              So, are you saying any of those books back your statement that the US killed 6 million Germans after the war!? Do you know how many might have died without prison camps? Do you know the condition of the world at the time?! You are a guy who is armed with a few facts that comport with your radical view and you spew it around. 6 million my ass. You lose any credibility. Did folks die after the war ended!? Yeah. Could you improve on Eisenhower’s policies? It’s all hind sight self righteous obnoxious radicalism.

            22. Kevin Sisson says:

              wiki??? lol…

            23. Maybe? says:

              Not mourning, just pointing out facts that are documented. Henry Ford, supplied the engines for their jeeps. Our banks, including from the Bush Family funded him (Hitler) and much more, but you’re too bright to go research and prove me wrong…correct hotshot?

            24. PepperPatriot says:

              It was not torture, it was legal interrogation and it gave us the guy that then led to Osama. The current CIA chief is on record saying that detainees after undergoing enhanced interrogation gave that info, he did offer the cavaet that they cant know if it would have been given up with or without the enhanced interrogation.

            25. patriot_act says:

              Riiiiiiiiiiiiight, nine years later. Next line of bullshit?

            26. PepperPatriot says:

              Yes, really that is exactly what Obama’s CIA chief stated. You might be stupid enough to things like that do not take time, but then you think this story is anything other than BS says a lot.

            27. Jeff Putterman says:

              Bullshit, and you either know that or are remarkably stupid.

            28. jj says:

              Typical “genius” comments by Jeff Putternan.

              donald trump eats pizza with a fork too

              My condolences on your childhood.

              Even with a skunk in a fish market people could smell your mother coming.

              Almost everything is beyond you. As if you didn’t know that.

              That your mother knew she was pregnant the same time they released her from the prostitution raap?

              You and which other morons do you speak of?

              In your dreams, dickweed. I’m here as myself. Not some freaking irish mook.

              Wait til you hear Silver sing like a squealing pig.

              What are you smoking, you pathetic idiot?

              Are you on drugs? Talk to your doctor about your lack of coherence.

              You are an idiot. Suck it, gusano.

              Go soak your head in turpentine and have a smoke.

              DeBlasio is so freaking stupid I can’t understand how he dresses himself

              They worked hard being born in the lucky sperm club? Are you drunk all the time, sir?

              Bullshit, and you either know that or are remarkably stupid.

            29. Jeff Putterman says:

              Wow, you wanna suck my dick too?

          6. Tom says:

            Intentions don’t matter. All that matters is what happened.

            1. glezzery says:

              Oh really!? The Left claims the PROGRAM is “TORTURE” which means INTENT stupid!~ The charge isn’t that some terrorist scum war criminals were tortured but that Bush Cheney Rumsfeld, THE CIA, NSA…are war criminals because 20 shitheads were treated HARSHLY! Dumbass. Please, just stay home if your brain doesnt function.

            2. Kevin Sisson says:

              what does the Right claim the PROGRAM to be?

            3. glezzery says:

              Exactly what it is, Interrogation of High Value Terrorists. Maybe folks have a comprehension problem. It was NEVER a torture program and the intent was never just to inflict pain and torture people. That notion is nonsense. This program was a response to terrorism, a new conflict, in uncharted waters. And folks don’t seem to get that. Like they are armchair critics after the fact, intent on political nonsense. And they are using a one sided biased report put out by Democrats based solely on cherry picked documents and NO actual interviews of players involved. The Left doesn’t care. They don’t care about the real situation and the struggle of good people doing a tough job.

            4. Kevin Sisson says:

              they were torturing people they picked up off the street. THE WRONG PEOPLE! not ‘high value terrorist’. you have a very dangerous mindset glezzerry. so does anyone with a left vs right mentality. and for your information, the higher ups LOVE to inflict pain and torture, it is FUN for them. making ‘soldiers’ follow their orders to do so gives them BIG boners. abu ghraib anyone?? it really sucks that you or anyone who gives a greenlight to thjs! also, “terrorism, a new conflict, in uncharted waters”.. are you for fucking real?? the string pullers behind the curtain, running the show. created the very ‘terrorist’ we are supposedly fighting. if you can’t see this, then i feel very sorry for you and all others who think like you.SMH…

            5. Rod Pittman says:

              Google torture! Lazy…

          7. Bram Hengeveld says:

            There was no intention? Well then, what are we talking about? Hanging a man from a ceiling to die from hypothermia: sorry dude, we didn’t intend to do that. You see: no torture! (btw; fucking awesome technique of extracting information: ‘dead men tell no lies’ after all)

            But let’s forget about the unethical part, the other reality is; very unreliable techniques were used to gather ‘info’ on which soldiers where to put their life on the line. I hope your doctor holds a more scientific point of view when diagnosing you. (of course he would’ve not intended to go to his tarot cards…)

          8. Michael Jenkins says:

            Are you. Really this stupid?

          9. Chris Cunningham says:

            Says the person that just referenced Rosie O’Donnell as though she’s a credible reporter of the news. Yeah, whatever you say, man!

          10. vinman043 says:

            The only thing laughable is your rant. The USA tried Japanese soldiers for water boarding as it was considered torture. Now, because we do it, it’s patriotic and acceptable?

          11. blackdiamomd says:

            i am reading ones post right now.

          12. Rod Pittman says:

            The LIARS in this entire fiasco would bet the NUTS that got us into this mess under the guise of WMD. They never found any! Care to explain why thousands of our military men and women to include tens of thousands Iraqis died because those RWNJ’s LIED? (Crickets) Send these BOZOS to The Hague.

            1. glezzery says:

              They never found any is factually FALSE. This is exactly the sort of uninformed bullshit i have been talking about. Hans Blix was there looking for EXISTING documented stockpiles that were not found. They DID exist and much of it was destroyed in place. Tons of Yellow Cake were removed. Evidently folks pushing these falsehoods don’t even read the NYTimes which has been reporting hundreds of US casualities from WMD. Please stop LYING ABOUT IT!

            2. Rod Pittman says:

              Funny that there are no official reports to support your claim. So for now I’d say either produce FACTS or return to your tiny bubble of a flat world and do what you do best, watch more Faux.

            3. glezzery says:

              Oh really!? Are so lazy you can’t google WMD inspectors!? The UN has thousands of pages. You are so ignorant of the facts, you don’t even know what happened in the runup to the Iraq War, a continuation of Desert Storm. You are a liar and a braggart.

              “After the Persian Gulf War, the United Nations
              located and destroyed large quantities of Iraqi chemical weapons and
              related equipment and materials throughout the early 1990s, with varying
              degrees of Iraqi cooperation and obstruction.[2] In response to diminishing Iraqi cooperation with UNSCOM, the United States called for withdrawal of all UN and IAEA inspectors in 1998, resulting in Operation Desert Fox.
              The United States and the UK asserted that Saddam Hussein still
              possessed large hidden stockpiles of WMD in 2003, and that he was
              clandestinely procuring and producing more. Inspections by the UN to
              resolve the status of unresolved disarmament questions restarted between
              November 2002 and March 2003,[3] under UN Security Council Resolution 1441,
              which demanded Saddam give “immediate, unconditional and active
              cooperation” with UN and IAEA inspections, shortly before his country
              was attacked.[4]”

          13. Kevin Sisson says:

            you’re one of them…

          14. patriot_act says:

            eat my fuck, twit!

          15. Jeff Putterman says:

            Were you born stupid, or did you drink too much vodka?

          16. Dorothy says:

            There was never any intention to torture anyone? Yes – it was all a misunderstanding. Shoving a tube up someones rear end, in no way torture. America just thought the man would enjoy being raped. America is just so understood.

          17. Unaccomplished Accomplices says:

            you did not read the torture reports

          18. obadiahorthodox says:

            The Japanese were executed for doing exactly the same thing, water boarding prisoners during WW II. If it was torture then it is torture now. Prosecute Bush and company NOW then execute the bastards.

            1. alwaysright21 says:

              you are a [email protected] faggot that lives in mommies basement, boy

            2. obadiahorthodox says:

              actually my body fat/weight ratio has nothing to do with my sexual preferences, and I have a studio apartment on the third floor of a very nice high class building that I pay $2400.00 a month for. My Mommy has been dead since 2002. If you want to continue a reasonable conversation, then I would advise you to stop the childish remarks.

            3. alwaysright21 says:

              bullsh!t, Liar, and you don’t advise me to do anything you obese sow. now back in the basement boy

            4. obadiahorthodox says:

              at least my 2008 imac would run your crappy microcrap computer into the ground sucker.

            5. alwaysright21 says:

              so, you don’t deny that the old woman on your right is your mom and you live at home?

          19. Michael Cashaw says:

            Your argument is that there was never any intent to torture? So you do admit there was torture taking place? Intent is not at issue, but what is at issue is the fact torture took place. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Cheney admit to US interrogators waterboarding prisoners? Is not harsh techniques a euphemism for torture? If you are not going to believe the CIA’s reports, what report are you using as a counter? What do you know that others in positions to know, and investigate do not know? One of the functions of a trial, is to get out information. As for your national emergency, was this emergency not started by the Bush Admin by invading a country who had nothing to do with 9/11? We never proved that Iraq, or Iran, had anything to do with 9/11, but yet we invaded them.

          20. Dale Mulkey says:

            Typical republican, you can’t get past the lies a deceit and stupidity of your party to even realize your a pathetic waste

          21. Jay F says:

            We went to war based on hearsay evidence. The ‘informant’ later admitted he had made it up. They acquired billions worth in oil.
            Yes, they absolutely should be tried for war crimes!

          22. dvsuton says:

            So is that what the GOP spokes persons from fox opinion channel and Ann Coulter are saying? Or is that what they are telling you to think?

          23. penny0314 says:

            You are amazing. Just when is torture okay? When is it a truly effective tool? Perhaps you would bring back the inquisition as well. Further, polemic is not an answer to anything. It just shows an inability yourself to reason.

          24. Johnny Slade says:

            Ya you are the enemy. i see it now.

        3. Silent Knight says:

          RACE CARD!!! PLAY ‘EM IF YA GOT ‘EM!

          1. Rod Pittman says:

            The Silent Knight of the KKK? You are to shallow to understand. When all else fails, blame the other guy for being racist first – then you move to the next stage which is: Don’t blame me, its the other guys fault.. “I feared for my life”, “Stand your ground!”, “Don’t tread on Me”, “This land is my land”, “those laws were meant for those people not us!”, “White Power”, “We rule the world”, “Go back to your own country” Those are not my words my friend. But I am sure that you know lots of people that has one or all plastered on the back of their car or truck. Just sayin!

        4. David Cummings says:

          Isn’t he also WHITE?

          1. Rod Pittman says:

            Probably ISIS!

          2. Rod Pittman says:

            You are correct David, he is 50/50 but for some reason most folks only see the tone of his skin.

        5. joe ebbitt says:

          peckerpatriot, so crime is laughable? Deceit is a platform of the GOP and your being duped ,silly ,”useful idiots” take back ‘Merika,derp!

        6. dtjump says:

          Its a joke.

      2. Lois Patton Plale says:

        Even if nothing ever comes from it, it exposes the serious nature of what they did. We helped set up the standard at the Geneva Convention after WWII and then act like it doesn’t pertain to us. That is an arrogant attitude.

        1. John Lane says:

          I think the Geneva Convention existed before WW II. At least Col Hogan often cites it. The allies did set up the courts at Nuremburg (sorry), with gusto.

          1. PepperPatriot says:

            Yawn… Someone is getting very self deluded and should get out of the echo chamber he is living in. …and his name is John. If you really think that is going to happen or even called for, WOW!

            1. John Baker says:

              Do I think it will happen? No. Do I think it should? You bet. Do I think you’re an idiot? Absolutely.

        2. PepperPatriot says:

          Yawn, as you judge it. Keep in mind that the “Eric holder justice department” has said no crimes committed and no charges will ever be filed over the enhanced interrogation. You see it as torture…I get that. I think that is an insult to real torture and terror victims.

          1. Robert says:

            Trouble with righties isn’t it… that what is just is a such a “yawn.” What a pitiful individual you are. Perhaps Karma will have it that some of this “enhanced interrogation” will be done to you.

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              Well, if I ever become a captured terrorist that has caused the death of thousands of innocents lives do to my direct planning and action I would hope that I would undergo those practices to stop me from doing any further harm. BTW, you do know we already do those exact things to our seals and other special ops operators as part of their training right? To prepare them as much as possible for if they are captured. Do you think that is torture? Or is it only torture when its done to terrorist leaders? The justices department under this administration run by the likes of Eric Holder has concluded no laws where broken by the program and no charges can or will be filled over it. How about you spend a little time lamenting the real crimes in the world like the beheading of innocents in the middle east, included children!

            2. Daniel Smith says:

              What is it with American people, like you. It doesn’t matter how you try to swing it, these guys are war criminals of the highest levels. Torture is torture, no matter how you try to disguise it. How can you condone such behaviour towards innocent people? All in the name of “National Security”, huh? Your type are the biggest hypocrites inhabiting this earth. You guys have caused the deaths of more innocent people than anyone, then you preach that idiotic patriotism to everyone else. It’s the same instance with the word “terrorism”. You were terrorising Arabs in the 1950’s for the sake of oil, forcing your democratic ideology on everyone there. They commit atrocities like 9/11, and all of a sudden, low and behold, they are terrorists and we need to eradicate them. You, as a country, were committing crimes against humanity long before 9/11, throughout the world. Unfortunately, for people like you and your country, you are developing more enemies than you can manage. Your arrogance will be your downfall. Turning a blind eye to such behaviour just further enhances this aspect.

            3. PepperPatriot says:

              The insanity of the left is simply amazing…

            4. JMH says:

              The insanity of you is simply amazing

            5. PepperPatriot says:

              Well, I tell you what….when will something tangible come from this court? When will they arrest bush, or anyone all the way down to the CIA operatives that did the interrogations in accordance with US law? The proof as they say is in the pudding. When is this going to be more than grand standing by the left? …..never! That is why you are the one that is out of your mind.

            6. Kevin Sisson says:

              because they will never step foot outside this country
              man, you are thick headed.
              BUSH and CHENEY and RUMMY
              CAN’T LEAVE THE COUNTRY!!! and they won’t.
              big fucking cowards will be put down in history as exactly that. COWARDS and THEIVES and LIARS!!! and MURDERERS!!!..
              AND you support it all…

            7. Daniel Smith says:

              Just to clarify, I have no political affiliations with anyone. I don’t consider myself to be left, centre or right. As far as I’m concerned, labelling people should have been left in elementary school. But hey, that’s just my opinion. I’m English for a start and, yes, our politicians are as corrupt as yours. I just see the behaviour from the US government for what it is… WRONG! At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what political nonsense you use to cover it; what they are and were doing is WRONG…

            8. glezzery says:

              The worst thing is these leftist idiots never had to make any tough decisions in life. They weren’t in combat and don’t know the law and haven’t studied the Geneva Convention, nor do they discern a legal honorable combatant from a war criminal, or harsh treatment from torture. They know nothing!.

            9. Rod Pittman says:

              I’ve been in Iraq for the past 5 years, and where may I ask have you been? Working the remote, and watching Faux.

            10. Jim says:

              I was in combat. I am not a leftist. Try again. Torture is wrong, it’s illegal and no act of congress has changed that to make it legal. They can’t because it’s under treaty as a part of international law…the only thing that over rides the Constitution of the United States of America.

            11. Rod Pittman says:

              I think your combat was a figment of your imagination. If you agree that torture is wrong why do you blindly say such nonsense when those guilty of committing them are not prosecuted? Who ordered the detention of the detainees and was their captivity in accordance with international law. Have they been charged and within which court have they been charged?
              I Yawn for your response!

            12. Jim says:

              I don’t really give a rats @&& what you think.

              Secondly, you are pretty stupid. I want them to go to prison…all of them, from the top down, including Obama and his admin, including the justice dept for not putting them in prison.

              The reason they are not charged is BECAUSE Obama and co are too weak to do it, or they are Guilty and continue to torture.

              There are no other options, and I am betting on the latter.

            13. Kevin Sisson says:

              they’re too busy killing civillians and children with their new found drone technology. and jim, it IS the latter. the same people have been running the show since the kennedy assassination…if you
              want to call them ‘people’. i don’t think kissinger is a ‘people’…

            14. Jim says:

              I already knew it was the latter, and you’re correct on your other points. These brainwashed people are the reason we as a country are so screwed up…they can vote, but are not smart enough to wipe their arse after taking a dump, much less research anything before they vote.

            15. Rod Pittman says:

              Jim, you see that’s the problem with NJ’s. Anything, Anything, that you can pin, stitch, weave or even glue together that you feel would tarnish President Obama’s presidency you will attempt. “Lets now blame Obama” for torturing illegal detainees. “He’s too weak!” Have you seen the value of the Ruble? I bet Vladimir, the GOP’s poster boy, would tell you differently. Nice try “BUDDY.” However, we are in partial agreement, “They” excluding President Obama, should be charged. Lets not flip the script, AKA Displacement.

            16. Jim says:

              I don’t have to tarnish his presidency, he is doing a fine job of that himself.

            17. Rod Pittman says:

              Oh Geez! Including Obama? Try calling him President Obama. I bet you cant do it. That “P” word preceding his name is the root of all disdain that RWNJ’s have for him and all that he has accomplished. Weak? Really? Ask that guy Bin Laden about being weak. Or Donald Trump when the President handed him his @$$ at the same time that he took out the allusive PE #1. Or ask Putin how the Ruble is doing? The number of people with health care, the price of gas, the record highs on Wall Street. How’s your 401k doing? Yeah I know, Thanks GWB – NOT. Unfortunately, the world doesn’t want to press charges against President Obama. But your boy GWB – you betcha!

            18. Jim says:

              Try kissing my @$$. He is no president, he is a puppet, controlled by his donors. fool. He has no respect from me…at all. Fruck you and him.

              Next, I am smart enough not to have my assets in paper, only a moron would do that at this time.

              All of my R.E. is paid for and I also have precious metals in equivalent values. I will not lose mine in the coming downturn.

              Bin Laden has been dead a long time. he was on dialysis when 9-11 happened, so look up how long someone lives in that state. Only a MORON would buy that story.

              You’re just a !)ick looking for a hole, but you’re just a limp one that not even a hole in the ground would want.

              Why should I care about Putin? Obama did not do that, CFR made the policy, if you had a single brain cell working, you would understand that.

              You’re just too stupid to get this aren’t ya BOY!

            19. Rod Pittman says:

              When you are down in an argument and the best thing you have in your arsenal of words is BOY! Son, I’ve own you in this argument. Step aside and call me daddy!

            20. Jim says:

              You own nothing, not even the truth…go away BOY!

            21. Rod Pittman says:

              Yes, I own you the constitution says so. Son!

            22. Jim says:

              Let me tell you something BOY! You don’t own anything nor anybody. If the Constitution were followed by the criminal in the office of the President of the United States of America, he would be impeached and locked up right now…never top see a golf course again.

              If Congress followed it, he and they would be locked up right now because few have not committed acts of treason.

              Obama, like Bush, is a war criminal. Putting our troops on foreign soil to fight without an act of war. Funding terrorist. Let me show you fool!

              The $1.1 trillion federal spending bill rammed through Congress
              provides a half-billion dollars to arm and train ISIS-linked Syrian
              rebels who could potentially launch terrorist attacks against the U.S.

              Section 9016 of the spending bill authorizes the Secretary of Defense
              $500,000,000 to equip “appropriately vetted elements of the Syrian
              opposition” who will defend “the Syrian people from attacks by the
              Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant,” but back in September ISIS signed a truce with the remaining rebel groups and they are now working together against the Syrian government.

              “The Secretary of Defense is authorized, in coordination with the
              Secretary of State, to provide assistance, including training,
              equipment, supplies, sustainment and stipends, to appropriately vetted
              elements of the Syrian opposition and other appropriately vetted Syrian
              groups or individuals…” the bill states.

              The Syrian rebels, however, consist of ISIS and groups with ties to ISIS.

              “We are collaborating with the Islamic State and the Nusra Front by
              attacking the Syrian Army’s gatherings in… Qalamoun,” Bassel Idriss, the
              commander of a “moderate” rebel brigade, told the Lebanese Daily Star.

              You MORON, we fund them and then fight them.. THAT IS TREASON according to US law and including the Patriot Act. You’re “president” BOY!

              You wouldn’t understand the Constitution if I BEAT you with it. Stupid moron. I even gave you the section number BOY, learn to research and read Boy!

              You support funding terrorism don’t ya BOY!

            23. Rod Pittman says:

              Son, you aint suppose to be talkin! That dar conttitution dun said that I own you , and that this land is my land. Including every sole own it. Plus I thaynk i used the last little sliver of it for TP on my last huntin trip.

            24. Rod Pittman says:

              All due to your BOY Bush! notice how your boys are objecting to the Palestinians being allowed into the ICC. Yeah, I know, Ya boy Bush is about to drop a brick. Go sit down “Property.” and don’t forget that own you. Got that “Property”

            25. Maybe? says:

              I am not anyone’s property, You see knucklehead, I was against him too. I am a poliotical atheist, I have better sense. Our left/right political system is nothing but the WWF Political style!

              I show you what’s happening now and you blame bush…lol. Again, you’re a MORON!

            26. Rod Pittman says:

              A person or persons who has a disbelief in the ruling of a dominating
              government with morals of any kind. Those who have belief that not everything
              produced by politics or the media hold truth of any kind. He/she whom holds
              their own belief in what is wrong or right not based on what is fed to them by
              what the general public allows themselves to be brainwashed with.

              Looks like you need to exit your bubble. But not unless I say so “Property”
              get out and see the world and you WILL find yourself muzzled and unable to find
              very many that are willing to follow you on that one. You fall into the category
              of Jim Jones and Heaven’s Gate. “Property”
              For sale, the price is free!

              You are funny!

            27. Maybe? says:

              I did see the world you buffoon. I spent a few years in the US Army. I own multiple businesses that do quite well and still travel to this day.

              As far as your brainwashed comment, you may want to look in the mirror.

              Two of the companies I own are marketing and algorithmic. Think about the marketing business a bit. I personally and indirectly control the actions of the US populace to some degree with words, it’s what I do for a living, so when people like you make comments about being brainwashed, it tickles me funny knowing I likely get some of your money because I can sway your emotions like the wind blows ( and everyone you know or have met in your life).

              Do you think the expensive Super Bowl commercials are a good investment considering they are millions and millions of dollars for a 15 second or 30 second spot? Why do they spend the money? Because you, and most are brainwashed and easily influenced…that’s why! They make 20 times that amount, maybe 50 or even 500 times that amount off it it because they are “Anchoring” behavior in you and everyone else.

              They elicit the desired emotion and then use a profound tag line to “Anchor” the desired behavior.

              I play with psychology, social psychology and have some pretty smart people (Think Doctorates) that do this for me full time.

              You are text book brainwashed because you will not do the research and check, that makes you a dishonest brainwashed buffoon. You are blindly loyal to you know not what. You think you are doing good, serving justice, but in reality, you’re nothing more than a useful idiot and a “consumer”. That’s a nice word…for cattle. They tell you this on the news, in science, and you still don’t get that you are nothing but sheep for the slaughter.

              Do you really think a government can be loyal, just and caring? They are a frigging “entity” run by some of the most vial and sadistic people on the face of the earth.

              The “entity” of government can not have any of the things you claim, it’s not possible because “Government” can’t have or experience emotion and are “Mandated” by law to serve it’s own interest based on their interpretations…the populace be damned!

              This has been proven via SCOTUS many, many times. you might want to look up some case law…if you can comprehend them.

              Knowing that you work around aircraft is scary.

              Your actions and world view are like a scotoma that haunts you as you try to make sense of reality.

            28. Rod Pittman says:

              A few years on active is a clear sign that you didn’t have what it takes to be promoted past E-2. Marketing with a control over the populous you say, I doubt it, stick to your FAUX entertainment channel. Listen, dipstick E-2 US Army wannabe. Your Boy GWB fu**ed up. He and his crew should be held accountable. No amount of marketing from your make believe fantasy will prevent the world from perusing them. I own your @$$! (Sarah Palin wink goes here) Meditate on that one….

            29. Maybe? says:

              Try E-5 P you idiot. I done well, until I figured out their game. I told my re-enlistment NCO that I would break his jaw if he even asked me try re-up. Looks more like i was smart enough not to take another 6 years…right stupid?

              There are documents and verbal admissions from the section chief of the Saudi CIA office that stated he was in the CIA Hospital in Dubai eating ice cream at US tax payer expense on 9-10-2001 and was reportedly that last time they had seen him. He was on dialysis at the time from reports. So why don’t you ask the CIA you idiot?

              “Your Boy GWB fu**ed up. He and his crew should be held accountable.” Hot damn, you do have a working brain cell! I agree with you 100%, but your punk @(( God Obummer does not have the balls to do it, because he is guilty of the same crap.

              “I’m willing to bet that you have never left your home town, which explains your narrow view of the world.”

              Nope, again your wrong…you sure are consistent at being wrong. I actually have moved, not just from my home town, but a completely different state.

              It’s been 17 years since I lived in my home state.

              As far as your aircraft work, it’s idiots…uh…I mean engineers like you that I hire and fire. It’s people like you that work for me. As far as political affiliations, i am a political atheist, so statistically you are 100% more likely to make decision based off following known and exposed liars.

              You are the one who needs to re-evaluate your world view, it’s lacking and you are found wanting.

            30. Rod Pittman says:

              E-5 and you figured it out. You were barely an NCO. LOL! In my line of work you would be coded DA. Meditate on that one. Clearly you have a problem with position of authority considering that you told your re-enlistment adviser that you would “break his jaw.” sound like anger management issues to me there buddy.

              Of course I must ask which hospital was Bin laden located, because since you ‘WERE’ Army and more than likely planing the next set of key strokes from the comfort of you cabin on the side of some hill in Arkansas. How would you know without being there? 1995-2001 was the time period that I was there. BUDDY! Of course if you had half a brain, Oh I forgot you were army, you would know that the Bin Laden family is one of the richest families in Saudi. Therefore, why would the CIA pay for his hospital stay in Dubai? Yeah, I’ve been there too. Your logic is flawed 6 year Army Dude (6YAD) that has it all figured out!

              Why don’t I ask the CIA? 6YAD, it is up to you to research your statements and back by facts. Unless you are one of those lazy a$$ takers that are milking My hard earned tax dollars and always wanting someone to do your job for you. WTF! Are you sure that you own a marketing business? Really!

              That’s President Obama to you, 6YAD. The greatest Pres this country has or shall I say will ever have.

              Let me get this straight, your marketing company hires and fires people like me. (chin rub) WTF! HTH! GTFOH! Were you dropped on your head at an early age? last time I checked HR hasn’t subcontracted their hiring processes out to any marketing agency. And that is across a pretty broad range of departments. Logistics, maintenance, operations, travel, planning, purchasing and medical. OH! I get it, your marketing company tries to sell major companies sh*t sandwiches for a boat load of money with a product that you and you buddy put together in your garage. LOL! And you get fired because of crappy marketing. (Sarah Palin wink).

              Known and exposed liars? 6 Year Army Dude, if that were the case I would believe you 100% but I don’t. (double Sarah Palin wink)

              In closing, your last sentence indicates to those of us that can read through your BS that you are owned. By me, 6 year army dude! A meager little parrot repeating talking points heard on FAUX entertainment. And for this one, you get the ultimate! (President Obama’s wink during the SOTU) ENJOY YOUR DAY 6YAD!

              That’s Army style.

            31. Rod Pittman says:

              E-5 and you figured it out! You were barely an NCO. LOL! In my line of work you would be coded DA. Meditate on that one. Clearly you have a problem with positions of authority considering that you told your re-enlistment advisor that you would “break his jaw.” sounds like anger management issues to me there buddy.

              Of course I must ask which hospital was Bin laden located, since you ‘WERE’ Army and more than likely planing the next set of key strokes from the comfort of your cabin on the side of some hill in Arkansas. How would you know without being there? 1995-2001 was the time period that I was there. BUDDY! Of course if you had half a brain, Oh I forgot you were army, you would have known that the Bin Laden family is one of the richest families in Saudi. Therefore, why would the CIA pay for his hospital stay in Dubai? Yeah, I’ve been there too. Your logic is flawed 6 year Army Dude (6YAD) that has it all figured out!

              Why don’t I ask the CIA? 6YAD, it is up to you to research your statements and back by facts. Unless, you are one of those lazy a$$ takers that are milking My hard earned tax dollars and always wanting someone to do your job for you. WTF! Are you sure that you own a marketing business? Really!

              That’s President Obama to you, 6YAD. The greatest Pres this country has or shall I say will ever have.

              Let me get this straight, your marketing company hires and fires people like me. (chin rub) WTF! HTH! GTFOH! Were you dropped on your head at an early age? Last time I checked, HR hasn’t subcontracted their hiring processes out to any marketing agency. And that is across a pretty broad range of departments. Logistics, maintenance, operations, travel, planning, purchasing and medical. OH! I get it, your marketing company tries to sell major companies sh*t sandwiches for a boat load of money a product that you and your buddy put together in your garage. LOL! And you get fired because of crappy marketing. (Sarah Palin wink).

              Known and exposed liars? 6 Year Army Dude, if that were the case I would believe you 100% but I don’t. (double Sarah Palin wink)

              In closing, your last sentence indicates to those of us that can read through your BS that you are owned. By me, 6 year army dude! A meager little parrot repeating talking points heard on FAUX entertainment. And for this one, you get the ultimate! (President Obama’s wink during the SOTU) ENJOY YOUR DAY 6YAD!

              That’s Army style.

            32. Rod Pittman says:

              Has anyone ever told you that you ramble. You could try to beat me with the constitution but I don’t think that would be a wise decision on your part. Property, I think you are suffering from ABS. That’s usually reserved for black men when called the Boy word. LOL! You really need to revisit the schools in your past for a little remediation. And for the last time, I wiped my butt with the constitution on may last trip to the woods when I ran out of TP. You are indeed funny though. Let the ICC have a whack at your buddies. Your statement above is a clear indication that you have no clue about anything you have written. Got that Property!

            33. Rod Pittman says:

              In addition, Property try using reliable sources. Copying and pasting entire an articles from a biased website can’t be taken as FACT. Try doing a little research.

            34. Rod Pittman says:

              I didt giv you permishun to rite dat.
              I guess for you to know that Bin Laden was on dialysis would mean that you were at his bedside. And you would know that one of the hi jackers was also a pilot in the RSAF. Care to tell me which one? Oh, you don’t know! Were you saying something about dumb? How would I know? Unlike many a$$ hats that post on sites like this there is a difference, big difference between peeps like me and keyboard warriors like yourself.
              We live the shit and you only fantasize about it. You are still for sale for free!

            35. Kevin Sisson says:

              jim, these guys are so brainwashed that it’s useless to try to have a conversation with them.
              they deny everything anyone says to them like demented robot clones.
              asshole below denies your combat service,,

            36. glezzery says:

              What is it with non-American dorks like yourself? You are saying an American President and VP and Dept. of Def. are War Criminals and WE are supposed to take it in the ass from half assed socialists/Leftists like yourself!? I mean huhhh, do you really expect Americans, who are free, to take your sorry asses as the Gospel!? Are you fucking for real!? Are you delusional!? Do you not KNOW any Americans!? Have you ever served with us!? Do you know anything at all!? Are you complete FOOLS!? What is the matter with you, that you think we would prosecute Americans for Interrogating THE WORST ENEMIES of the WEST AND CIVILIZATION imaginable! Are you fucking stoned!?>

            37. glezzery says:

              Do you really think your little Leftist Taunts of “torture” and being BAD People are going to win!? The Left today are as stupid as ever. Do you folks know that the Interrogators were PHds serving their country, under tough emergency circumstances? Do you know they tried to do the LEAST physical pain and LEAST discomfort possible!? Do you know they USED OSHA STANDARDS FOR NOISE you fucking retards!? You are so stupid. Jeff next door, your neighbor, Mr. Friendly could be one of these people. You nephew could be an analyst. You are the worst, dumbest, shallowest, most destructive dummies ever!

            38. Rod Pittman says:

              Yep, bend it over!

            39. Kevin Sisson says:

              you represent the RIGHT very well.

            40. glezzery says:

              You represent the Left perfectly. You are a condescending cunt with few brain cells.

            41. Kevin Sisson says:

              you are so misguided it’s freaky. what a fuckin’ paranoid…may Jesus Christ of Nazareth come into your life and save your soul from the luciferian control over you.
              in Christ Jesus name,

            42. glezzery says:

              This is politics not Sunday School. You are in the wrong thread for saving souls. I am trying to damn a few that deserve it.

            43. Kevin Sisson says:

              you don’t have the power to damn anyone demon.
              and i do not save souls.
              you are my enemy and the enemy of all on this planet.
              i have just prayed for my enemy..
              i pray for your soul glezzery.
              it’s never too late to change…

            44. glezzery says:

              You aren’t my enemy. My enemy is Islamists that want us all dead. You don’t merit the term ENEMY at all. You are just a condescending jerk that thinks he wins by playing the Holy Card. Go fuck yourself.

            45. Kevin Sisson says:

              win what??

            46. Daniel Smith says:

              Wow, that’s a lot of questions. You may want to ask yourself a lot of those things. Also labeling someone stupid, simply because you disagree with them is elementary at best. Just to clarify, I have no political agenda. I’m no more Republican-minded than I am a Democrat. In a way, your attitude towards me opitomises the exact same American arrogance I was referring to with the original poster. If you refuse to hold other Americans accountable for crimes against humanity then what right do you have to make, say ISIS accountable. It’s hypocritical in every form. There was another nation who thought they could persecute people based on their religion. That was Nazi Germany.

            47. PepperPatriot says:

              Yawn, not torture.. It was reviews by the holder/obama justice department and they have said no crime/no charges. You can bitch and moan. Truth is there are real crimes and real threats in the world and your anti-american leftest obsessions is not helpful. The above story is bullshit, I know it and you should know it. Give over your self and your agenda.

            48. Daniel Smith says:

              I have no agenda. I would just like to see people be humane to one another. The behaviour of the US is no different than that of the extremists they claim to fight. You can’t just brush it off as nothing. Your country were detaining and torturing people from across the globe without any evidence for 10 years and they claim ‘No Crime’. Maybe ISIS have the same mentality…

            49. PepperPatriot says:

              No difference? You are insane. Isis, has cut the heads of kids and women, is committing genocide, is engaging in mass kidnapping raping and sex slaving civilians, and you compare that to a legal interrogations of terrorist? ….you need to take a deep breath and try to actually see what is happening in the world.

            50. Kevin Sisson says:

              911 was an inside job. orchestrated by the same fuckwads we are
              talking about on this thread…

          2. LoveYourDNA says:

            you sure yawn a lot. must be bored with yourself and your own opinions

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              I am bored with the grand standing and delusions of the left. By those that 1, pretend this story is anything other than theater by the left or 2, are so out of tough from reality they think anything will come of this. Whichever are you?

            2. Kevin Sisson says:

              good, well, leave then, all rightie???

          3. Kevin Sisson says:

            you are just out of your mind dude. ‘ an insult to real torture and terror victims’ INSANE!!!…

          4. Rod Pittman says:

            That would be in the US. Last time I checked, The Hague is located in The Netherlands. Should we have a geography lesson for you as well? I don’t think our jacked up justice system has any applicability there. I Yawn!

        3. Stephen Koch says:

          The “Enhanced Interrogation” the CIA did after 911 (which was legal on all accounts, and signed off on through every step of the way by the department of justice to senator Feinstein herself, etc) had absolutely nothing to do with the Geneva Convention in any way. Nothing at all. Get a clue, Lois, before posting your left wing crap.

          1. Von Bailey says:

            It was NOT signed off by the DOJ, the DOJ refused to do so. It was signed off by the White House Council, which is just the President’s lawyer. Guess what, you’re lawyer cannot write a document that excuses you from obeying the law whether you’re President of the United States or just some common civilian. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

            1. glezzery says:

              You are just another liberal with a political axe to grind, running around saying anything you want to be torture is torture. I referred to SER and SpecWar training and even CIA training, where Waterboarding is used to demonstrate interrogation. You are a PUTZ because you diminish what torture really is. It is NOT and never will be a few seconds of a drowning feeling. It is prolonged intense and persistent pain and mental anguish.The DOJ NEVER signs off on clandestine CIA operations FOOL. They are not in the loop. You are uninformed. The two 101st soldiers mutilated found in Iraq were tortured. Try using words correctly and honoring their definitions instead of making shit up.

            2. glezzery says:

              So Mr. NoItAll, please tell us WHO determined Waterboarding was torture and made it illegal!? Please inform us. You claim WE said it is torture when it was done to us…WHERE is that evidence?!

            3. PJ London says:

              In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese civilian who had served in World War II as an interpreter for the Japanese military, Yukio Asano, for “Violation of the Laws and Customs of War”, asserting that he “did unlawfully take and convert to his own use Red Cross packages and supplies intended for” prisoners, but, far worse, that he also “did willfully and unlawfully mistreat and torture” prisoners of war. Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.[125] The charges against Asano included “beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward.”[209] The specifications in the charges with regard to “water torture” consisted of “pouring water up [the] nostrils” of one prisoner, “forcing water into [the] mouths and noses” of two other prisoners, and “forcing water into [the] nose” of a fourth prisoner.[210]

              Please don’t come with that “they are not POWs “rubbish. Check the Geneva convention, article 3, even civilians are covered.

            4. glezzery says:

              WTF!?! That was a JAPANESE Civilian accused of all sorts of shit. That is not a US person found guilty of Water-boarding as illegal!? You are a typical Leftist TRICKSTER, Lying, playing games, uninformed…

            5. glezzery says:

              Here is what you don’t seem to get. When trying Jap Civilians for atrocities against GIs, the GENEVA CONVENTION was invoked and used to prosecute. Al Qida murderers are not covered by the WORDS of Geneva and even if Bush they would honor Geneva, he never said in ALL cases. You fools have no common sense and dont know the facts. You are shallow numbskulls.

            6. Von Bailey says:

              Nothing you said changes the FACT that when US soldiers were water-boarded, the US tried the people who applied those “interrogation techniques” for torture. If it was torture then it’s torture now and only a pathetic hypocrite would see some difference. I don’t have to make anything up, I simply have to know something about history.

          2. Tom says:

            Here’s what you’re not understanding: just because the U.S. internally sanctions something, doesn’t make it “legal.” Nor does it make it right.

            1. glezzery says:

              Just because you claim its wrong doesnt make it so, so there!

        4. MURICA says:

          Conservatives? Arrogant? No never. PFFFT

        5. Terry Miller says:

          something has already come from sure dont see any of the guilty leaving the security of the good ole USA ,do you ?they are prisoners in their own country…

          1. Rod Pittman says:

            Terry Miller your statement further proves the point that something is brewing for those that committed crimes against humanity. Unfortunately there are a few that believes that the US is somehow immunized from charges.

      3. Kajsa Williams says:

        People who experienced the NAZIS know this mentality when they see it.

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Right, because the US had no experience with the NAZIS. Would the kangaroo courts of the European leftists exist without the US saving Europe from the Nazis? Invoking the NAZIS against the US is laughable.

          1. PJ London says:

            No, the US had no experience with the NAZIS, other than Prescott Bush and others supporting and financing them.
            The US did not save Europe, the war was effectively over, the Germans had lost millions of men on the Eastern front. The Russians were advancing without any solid resistance. The British bombing had destroyed their capacity to manufacture and move material. As with WW1, and always, the US came in at the end and claimed most of the loot

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              LOL, You win the stupidest most historically ignorant post ever! Germany would never have been defeated without the US and not just the blood we spilt and bleed, but the US provided support for the war effort against Germany that made the difference. Who do you think kept England supplyet in the war effort. The fact that you cant admit that simple reality shows your whole thought processes is so bias as to be delusional.

            2. PJ London says:

              I am a student of history, not merely a regurgitator of the lies fed by people who need to justify their evil actions.
              The USA SOLD arms to the Allies, at enormous profits and credit at high interest.
              I cannot be bothered to further discuss with you as it is clear you have no desire to use facts or logic.

            3. glezzery says:

              YOU are an idiot and a fraud. Period. Shut your fucking yap.

            4. PJ London says:

              Wow, that raised the level of debate!

            5. Rod Pittman says:

              I think PJ owns you dude give it up. Your argument carries no weight when tested with those things called FACTS.

            6. Kevin Sisson says:

              words from a small minded little man.

            7. Kevin Sisson says:

              not to mention that they are so dumbed down
              like 95% of the population.
              i believe that there is absolutely no way to bring them around. only God can. they don’t realize that they are defending evil…

            8. glezzery says:

              You are an obvious retard without ANY History lessons of the Carentan Peninsula. HOW DARE YOU MAKE SUCH HEINOUS FALSE statements, you douchebag. The War was almost over!? The British Bombing!? You are stupid and confused. The Brits BARELY pulled out the Battle of Britain. The Bombing was done by the US. We lost 240’000 men in the war you say was “almost over” including an Inlaw that fought at Guadacanal, and 4 Uncles who served, including one killed in Italy and another that fought from Sicily to Africa, to Normandy in a National Guard Infantry unit. You know JACK shit. You arent even a good FRAUD about the history there. Go fuck yourself.

            9. Kevin Sisson says:

              sorry that you lost relatives over the pearl harbor false flag incident…

          2. Jim says:

            Man, we funded them, the courts and the NAZI’s.

            Do a search for Prescott Bush, and see how G.H.W. Bush’s grandfather had assets seized for funding the Hitler war Machine.

            It’s the blind tunnel vision from people like you that gives preppers a bad name.

            1. glezzery says:

              Bush Bush Prescott Bush Bush… What UTTER NONSENSE! Are you aware GHW Bush flew an obsolete torpedo bomber off a carrier and was shot down in the Pacific, you idiot!

            2. Jim says:

              Really? Did you look it up? No, you didn’t. If you had, you would know it’s true.

            3. Kevin Sisson says:

              dude you are sooo stupid. that bush is one of the ‘string pullers’ behind the curtain. he is a very evil person. too bad he didn’t get killed when he was shot down!…

            4. glezzery says:

              You just run your mouth based on nonsense. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself pronouncing people “EVIL” and such. You are a typical uninformed uneducated unintelligent troll.

            5. Kevin Sisson says:

              what i speak is the truth, son.
              once again, i will pray for you.
              you are so severally lost, you have been
              successfully mind controlled from the tjme that you were told
              to put your hand over your heart and recite the pledge
              you can’t even tell the difference between good and evil.
              the people running the show, are very EVIL, they worship
              ancient satanic “gods” that you haven’t a clue as to who they are.
              they worship lucifer.
              and you worship them.

            6. glezzery says:

              So, i guess by your idiotic notion, some obscure seizure you SAY funded the Hitler War Machine, Prescott Bush’s FATHER, makes all subsequent Bushes guilty of something!? Why not post some evidence to back up your bullshit?

            7. glezzery says:

              Hell, you don’t even know which Bush is GHW!!!! Why am i wasting my time with some leftist moron?

            8. Jim says:

              IBM supplied the technology to “Mark” the people in the camps, they still lobby for defense based contracts. We also funded both Iraq and Iran in the Iran Contra Debacle. look up gulf of Tonkin Incident. Then look up who was lobbying for war with Viet Nam.

              Look up YouTube “Hillary Clinton : We created Al-Qaeda”. We not only started them, we recruited them and put them together. Go look and see the “Al-Qaeda” flags flying on Libyan government buildings to this day.

              Do a search for “Al-Qaeda with UN Troops in Syria” and see who the Syrian Rebels are. Then Check ISIS’s flag and you may be surprised by what you see. You can also check this search in YouTube “isis us training and us tents” AND “ISIS Scores Huge Weapon Stash From US Airdrop “.

              The $1.1 trillion federal spending bill rammed through Congress provides a half-billion dollars to arm and train ISIS-linked Syrian rebels who could potentially launch terrorist attacks against the U.S.

              Section 9016 of the spending bill authorizes the Secretary of Defense $500,000,000 to equip “appropriately vetted elements of the Syrian opposition” who will defend “the Syrian people from attacks by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant,” but back in September ISIS signed a truce with the remaining rebel groups and they are now working together against the Syrian government.

              “The Secretary of Defense is authorized, in coordination with the Secretary of State, to provide assistance, including training, equipment, supplies, sustainment and stipends, to appropriately vetted elements of the Syrian opposition and other appropriately vetted Syrian groups or individuals…” the bill states.

              The Syrian rebels, however, consist of ISIS and groups with ties to ISIS.

              “We are collaborating with the Islamic State and the Nusra Front by attacking the Syrian Army’s gatherings in… Qalamoun,” Bassel Idriss, the commander of a “moderate” rebel brigade, told the Lebanese Daily Star.

              And another “moderate” commander of the Free Syrian Army, Abu Khaled, also said they are collaborating with Islamic militants.

              “Let’s face it: The Nusra Front is the biggest power present right now in Qalamoun and we as FSA would collaborate on any mission they launch as long as it coincides with our values,” he added.

              Go ahead, go check out Section 9016 and read for yourself.

              Now back to answer your question. GHW Bush started in then CIA and has had a LOT of power since. He has been president, a congressman an sat on a LOT of boards and committees. Then his son starts a war based on lies (Iraq), and now we hear talk of Jeb Bush?

              Since Clinton became Governor of Arkansas, He and his bitch for a wife has been in one debacle after another, yet they continue to hold high level positions.

              The game is rigged moron, you are supporting your enemies that our Government created and are killing our troops when fighting the same people these evil people are funding with your tax dollars. And you are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

              Come one back fool, I can educate you for years and years on reality, but you’re too f-ing stupid to investigate anyway.

              Yes, the Bushes are evil, yes the Clinton are evil, yes, Obama is eveil as was EVERY high ranking political position holder, excluding JFK since the inception of the Federal Reserve, U.N. and the CIA.

              So 100 years of Bushes in high level government and I am the nut-job here?, You stupid f-c-,this is not the UK. Quit smoking that crap, it’s screwing your mind up.

              I could explain the psychology of the why most are brain dead (Indoctrinated) as you are, but you are no longer worth it.

              You’ve sold out your country, your family and all of your self unaware.

              Go away fool, I don’t have anymore time for self perpetuated morons.

          3. The win with Nazis during WWII was made thanks to multi national efforts, including Poland, British, Russians and US later. However there are gossips where it says the US was financing Nazis to later loot the after war ashes, just like with WWI.

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              Please try a little reading comprehention. Never did I say that the US defeated the Nazis alone. The US did however save Europe from the Nazis, had it not been for the US the war would have been lost. You can hate it, but the fact is true. As for the gossip…..please skip the tin foil hat crap.

            2. Kevin Sisson says:

              how ’bout this knucklehead, prescott bush and others funded the nazis and were rooting for them.
              they were also funding the ‘allies’. then they decided to put us into the war too. mo’ money, mo’ money.
              hitler was not their poster boy anymore, so he had to go.
              and if you think they gave a rats ass about the fate of our soldiers over making money, then i suggest that you find the video called . bohemian groves – the cremation of care. ( i know you won’t tho, you might get informed) the people in power have been there since the days of nimrod. they always get squashed, just as the demons in control now will be..the bushes and cheneys. and obamas will be a great place to start.but we will not get to the higher ups or disband the illegal unconstitutional take over of our country by the i.r.s without them starting wwiii. i know this sounds insane to you peppers, but that’s how you come across to me too. same to you glezzy.

            3. There are rumours that the US invested in Nazis…

          4. Lol the USA didn’t stop the NAZI’S what are you even spouting?

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              He Who Has No Life, also has no concept of history.

            2. Kevin Sisson says:

              and you have no concept of a brain cell pardner…

        2. glezzery says:

          Oh Really!? You Mean Jews being killed by Islamists being Water-boarded experience… wait, are you stupid!? What exactly do you mean. In your analogy, the folks being water-boarded are innocent Jews and they are being tortured by Nazis (AKA Americans)!??! That is the dumbest, most backwards, most WRONG analogy i have heard in my life.
          You are a real moron and folks shouldn’t even be NICE TO YOU~

          1. glezzery says:

            In REAL WORLD not liberal world, Americans and Jews, that experienced NAZis, including 4 Great Uncles of mine, are interrogating NAZIS to get info to SAVE OTHERS. THAT is what happened. The folks interrogated were the NAZIS and the WORST of THEM!

      4. Marek Edelman says:

        Only a sadist would laugh at something as serious as torture. Remember this Fascist: The US hung many German Nazis at Nuremburg for committing the same crimes…

        How can you expect to lead the world by EXAMPLE and gain any respect, if we allow ourselves to ACT LIKE NAZIS ???

        1. glezzery says:

          No Nazis were hung for anything remotely similar to the Interrogation program. They were hung for incinerating millions of people, you IDIOT!

          1. PepperPatriot says:

            I truly think the left is insane. They can see fort hood and cant call it terror, but work place violence. They see an interrogation program that the current justice department says was not criminal and they compare it to the Holocaust. Right now their is a growing cancer in the middle east that threatens civilization, that is expressing itself with genocide, including the beheading of infants and trying to paint the US and its officials as NAZIS? You and the left really need to step back, take a deep breath and gain some perspective.

          2. Dan Summers says:

            And many were also brought over the US to work for the US government. They were pardoned of all their crimes.

            1. glezzery says:

              Excuse me, are you NUTS!? An American Supreme Justice went there to prosecute them, asshole! Why not back that nonsense up if you can. Name ONE former Nazi that ended up working in the US Admin.

      5. colliegirl1 says:

        As laughable as the Nazi War Crimes Tribunal? Criminals are criminals. I do not appreciate these ‘leaders’ representing me or my country as they did during their Iraq hoax/fiasco. what goes around comes around. It is sad our own people don’t hold our leaders accountable for upholding the law of the civilized nations.

        1. Kevin Sisson says:

          and bankrupting our nation!…

      6. Von Bailey says:

        … and yet it still has more credibility than the Bengazi, IRS conspiracy theories that the right toss out all the time. At least there’s EVIDENCE that supports crimes were actually committed here. Nobody had to make up anything, the idiotic heroes on the right got on national television and bragged to the world of their crimes.

        As far as nothing coming of it? Ask Cheney to go visit Germany like any other world leader might. See if nothing comes of it then.

        1. glezzery says:

          Oh, so now Benghazi is some theory or conspiracy by the right instead of FACTS told by operators told to stand down, by facts of relieving the 16 man security detail in Libya before the incident…You are a liar sir. You are just channeling LIES like Obama.

          1. PepperPatriot says:

            Do these Leftist believe this crap locked in some kind of circle jerk or do they think if they repeat it enough it will be true?

            1. Von Bailey says:

              Why? Is that the logic you use to bolster your delusions?

            2. PepperPatriot says:

              Tell you what, like this childish story you should hold your breath till a single US official sees the inside of a court room! 😛

            3. Kevin Sisson says:

              once again, DEFEND the EVIL… you are definitely no better than them…

            4. Kevin Sisson says:

              is everyone a leftist to you? apparently so.

          2. Von Bailey says:

            Oh, so now six investigations that have discovered none of what you claim are wrong and your right wing paranoia defines reality? Don’t think so. You’re incredibly gullible looking for reasons to justify your ideals and any lie will do.

            1. PJ London says:


              1. The act or process of investigating: a politician under investigation.
              2. A careful examination or search in order to discover facts or gain information

              To whitewash

              is a metaphor meaning to gloss over or cover up vices, crimes or scandals or to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data

              There is a difference.

            2. Von Bailey says:

              Of course there is. Unfortunately for you, the only evidence of a “whitewash” is that the investigations didn’t agree with what you wanted them to. That’s simply delusional. Try using evidence instead of your assumptions, oh wait, you don’t have those. That would end your ability to rant wouldn’t it?

            3. PJ London says:

              Frank Serpico

              “I called for, way back when before the Knapp Commission, for an independent investigative body. When I was testifying about police corruption, I saw very clearly how the DA can lead the grand jury in any direction they so desire.”

              I am ot the delusional one.

            4. Von Bailey says:

              You are apparently also not bright enough to see the difference between a Grand Jury and a congressional investigation. There were 6 congressional investigations that demonstrated nothing illegally done. But of course, it makes more sense to you that everyone, even those who would benefit politically by an actual conspiracy being proved, are all hiding something that YOU know but have no real evidence to support. That’s delusional.

        2. PepperPatriot says:

          If it suits him, I am sure he will. …and the Germans will do zip. You think they are going to shoot Secret Service Agents and seize former VP? You think they would risk such an international incident? The US justice department has already no crimes committed, so to have some other nation grab a former leader of the US would basically be an act of war. It would and will never happen. If you think it would, your frankly insane. What this is about is anti-american grandstanding. It is laughable, and despicable at the same time.

          1. Von Bailey says:

            I think it’s ridiculous to believe it will come to gunfire. If he gets into a country where they want to prosecute him, he won’t be able to get out. Blocking his transportation will not require gunfire and unless he is threatened with death they have no reason to fire.

            If any of them start traveling to Europe we’ll see but somehow I doubt they are as convinced of their travel freedom as you are.

            1. Kevin Sisson says:

              they can’t even go into canada…

          2. Kevin Sisson says:

            nope, just anti evil, my friend…

          3. Daniel Smith says:

            You would be surprised. Just because they don’t speak a lot of rhetoric like the US, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it. I’m surprised that such a keyboard warrior as yourself, wouldn’t do more research before typing. But hey, ho…It is what it is…

      7. xnerd says:

        The people that you so naively call leftists are centrists.
        The people in the picture above are fascists.

        There are no leftists or commies or even radical liberals in this country anymore.
        Obama could have run as a republican 35 years ago.

        The right has moved off of the board not the left. They have gotten everything that they wanted to get including a regressive tax code that allows billionaires to pay almost no taxes.
        If there were true liberals in this country do you honestly think that would have happened?

        good God go take a fucking poli sci class.

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          LOL, you do not know what your talking about. The left has moved more radical. Once you had a left and democratic party that was much more centrists and reasonable. Remember we had a presidents from that side like Kennedy that was strong on national defense, believed in free markets, a patriot. If he ran today he would be a republican. Remember he said “A rising tide raises all boats”. I still would not have voted for him, but I would have seen him as respectable. Hell, Clinton was a moralist little shit, but was far more moderate than those running things from the left in his party now. …and you think the leftists are becoming more moderate now? Clueless and Insane.

          1. Kevin Sisson says:

            you should not be allowed to vote!
            even if they don’t count anyway…

      8. Kevin Sisson says:

        silly gov. troll!..

      9. Jeff Putterman says:

        Why don’t you choke on the pepper and leave justice to those of us who have the intelligence and moral turpitude to handle it, you little punk?

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Leave justice, justice….well assessment has already been done, and no charges will ever be filed in the US and the is the only courts that matter. Why dont you let go of your hate statist?

          1. Jeff Putterman says:

            Because I don’t want mass murderers using my money and my name to commit their crimes. If only you had even the outline of a moral compass, you’d understand my anger at this blatant protection of criminals.

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              Well, we live in a representative democracy and have free speech. You can surly spew your misguided hate. However, the nation and its justice system looked at this issue and disagreed with you. You can stew in your pointless hate of the past or move on to something that might actually do something meaningful. Nothing will come of this story.

      10. mark wyatt says:

        You’re more than likely right but will you please give us your understanding and brief explanation of the collapse of building 7.

      11. fine53 says:

        You mean just like benghazi??

      12. penny0314 says:

        Regardless, every effort needs to be made to try these three. Apparently you believe justice is not worth the effort.

    2. alwaysright21 says:

      the head n!gger in charge should fly coach. and, the first wookie should be in the cargo section in a cage.

  6. Nicky Blue says:

    “Saving the USA since 1776” 1) Too late. You should have started in 1619 by staying where you were. 2) You know nothing about saving. Your own history is proof of that, occupiers.

    1. PepperPatriot says:


  7. PepperPatriot says:

    The upside, is they have zero authority! Nothing will come of this, it is just a stunt by left wing loons decieving themselves.

  8. FMJ says:

    It’s about time someone had the morals and ethics to do something about these war criminals. Hope they make them rot in prison, or at least make them pay back all the money they made off of their wars.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      Make them Rot? There is no authority for them to do anything to a US citizen/Official. Do you really think they have any reach into the US? Please!!!

      1. LoveYourDNA says:

        How foolish so-called Amerikan Patriots are to think the US is immune to war crimes when they commit them!

        1. Rodrick Pittman says:

          Spot on!

        2. PepperPatriot says:

          Yawn, the current justice department…..under obama and holder, who would love to nothing more…..concluded no crimes committed by that program. This story is nothing more than a circle jerk for the left. So, tell me when will a single US offical be hauled before some kangaroo court? NEVER. How about focusing on a real threat to civilization, you know the one that is causing the beheading of infants in the middle east right now?

          1. Rodrick Pittman says:

            ISIS is your worst enemy dude? Really? We could win the war against ISIS with two one way tickets. Bush and Chaney are the lucky winners. FYI – the DOW is currently trading over 18000 and gas prices are at or below $2.00. Imagine where it would be if we handed over the “kangaroos” previously mentioned. You are funny! LMAO

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              It is not ISIS alone, modern civilization is with fundamentalist islam. You can deny it all you want, but if you look at the polls of the views of the followers of islam at the percent that hold radical views and then look at how many millions that represents it is truly outrageous and needs to be faced. Moderates will eventually have to decide where they stand on this threat.

            2. Rod Pittman says:

              Why don’t we start in our own back yard and rid ourselves of the fundamental Christians while we are at it. Lead by example is what we teach all of our men and women that serve in our military. Bush and Cheney would be an excellent start, then we can clean up our justice department, police department, Congress. Lets start there first.

            3. PepperPatriot says:

              While I think anyone that rejects reason and thinks blind faith (including leftist’s faith in big government) is scary. American Christians are not cutting kids and woman heads off. They are not putting suicide vests on kids. They are not blowing up historical and cultural treasures that can not be replaced. They are not attacking civilization itself. The fact you dont see that difference is not surprising if you think the story above is anything other than crap.

            4. Rod Pittman says:

              But the US is having a field day killing people for jaywalking or playing with a toy gun in a park. You really need to catch up on current affairs.

            5. Rod Pittman says:

              No, most Christians in America are not cutting kids heads off. However, there are a few that call themselves Christian that are perfectly OK with killing people for jaywalking, or will pop a cap in someone carrying a BB gun openly in an open carry state. IMHO, those types of Christians are no better than ISIS and guess what, they are located right there in the good ole US of A. I won’t mention the desecration of Native American historical treasures destroyed by those pesky terrorist Christians. Or that which was taken from the black Americans when they were put on a boats to work for free. Detained against their will. Shot, hanged, whipped, castrated. All of which are crimes against humanity. I know I know, You didn’t do it! ( insert your misdirection here) right? That happened a long time ago? Right? The Hague for these Bozos would be a good start to begin cleaning up the mess america has been in for the past 300 years.

            6. PepperPatriot says:

              Wow, lots of stupid shit in that one. One, speaking of crimes committed in the past over race, the US addressed desegregation and slavery….itself. Two, I hate to break to you, I am am native american atheist, that open carries and many of those that Opencarry with me are minorities. The US looked at interrogations after 9/11 and found them to have not broken US law…..end of story. DEAL WITH IT.

            7. Rod Pittman says:

              All of which were (past) and are (present), crimes against humanity. A Native American, I am too. How strange is it that a Native feels fine when our prime fertile land was taken from us and we are given BAD LANDS. How do you find it that our people were slaughtered by the tens of thousands? Oh my bad that happened in the past and since we have mentioned it in history book, that makes it OK. Don’t let the color of my skin fool you, Miccosukee partner. You are misguided and clearly a fool to think that the ICC can’t charge your Boy GWB!

            8. PepperPatriot says:

              What sad way to look at the world! No land was stolen from you. No land was stolen from me. Yes, our ancestors committed sins/crimes against our ancestors…..that is human history. In the end of the day, I was born in a great nation, in a family that loved me. I gained small benefits from my family, but what I gained I am grateful for. What I wont do is spend my life crying and seeing myself as a victim of history. The greatest factor in the out come of my life is my actions. ….as for ICC, they can go thought whatever circus they want, but nothing will come of it. If you think otherwise, you are the foool

            9. Kevin Sisson says:

              wow man…you are so far gone…

          2. LoveYourDNA says:

            show me proof of said infant beheadings.

            1. PepperPatriot says:

              How about you do a simple websearch and watch the videos and pictures captured from ISIS fighters? Does the left always have to be spoon fed that which does not fit their agenda?

            2. Kevin Sisson says:

              FUCKING DUDE!!!
              ISIS is a creation of the cia. like al queda. like 911.the corporate/military industrial complex create these monsters so idiots like you
              can swallow their evil intentions hook, line and sinker knowing that you will not question it.
              they divide us with left/right red/blue/ black/white/
              and so on and you can’t see this. i figure that 90% of the population is so caught up in this deception that we will never make right, right. and truth, truth.
              i personally hold satan responsible for all of this…

          3. Kevin Sisson says:

            you are really out of your mind dude…

  9. Leron says:

    Indict the MF’ers.

    1. Rodrick Pittman says:

      That’s what i’m talking for!

      1. PepperPatriot says:

        ….talk all you want! Nothing will come of this story. …end of story.

  10. IonU says:

    These folks are above all laws and beyond the reach of any court in any land. As much as they all deserve to die slow painful deaths nobody can touch these guys.

    1. libamericaorg says:

      We can touch their legacies, though. And we will.

      1. PepperPatriot says:

        A lot of self-importance in that statement. This story is a joke and means nothing. The only thing interesting about it is the leftists that think it means anything. It highlights how out of touch they are.

        1. LoveYourDNA says:


          1. PepperPatriot says:

            That reply is about as intelligent as the story above!

            1. Rodrick Pittman says:

              If you thing that’s a winner you should read what this one guy (Black) PepperPatriot has written.

            2. LoveYourDNA says:

              you mean your comments here.

  11. Brian_pdx says:

    These assclowns who whine about mistreatment can cry me a river. If they weren’t terrorists they allowed terrorists to be successful and supported them tacitly or overtly. That said, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Condo Rice are terrorists and should be prosecuted. Scum all of them.

  12. Anderson says:

    Oh yes! It has been coming. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld must face the ICC for killing over 100,000 Iraq’s men, women, and children during the useless invasion on Iraq.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      What has been coming? Nothing!

  13. Doc Rock says:

    I guess these three wont be traveling overseas anytime soon.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      I bet you they can and will. Nothing will come if this crap.

      1. Doc Rock says:

        Then why havent they been and why arent they traveling overseas? LOL

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Who says they are not when it suits them? Truly are you insane enough to think any coming from this bullshit? Are you that insane?

          1. Doc Rock says:

            I apparently must be. I decided to respond to your insane post. They wont travel overseas anymore.

  14. The Critiquette says:

    Wow, the ads on the sidebar of this website are really offensive. Why would an organization called “Liberal America” allow that kind of advertising??? “26 drunk girls and their epic fails” with a crotch shot of a woman who has passed out. Come on.

  15. Jeremy David Acton says:

    I think Bush , Cheney, and Rumsfeld and also Blair should all be airlifted to the marketplace of Kabul or Baghdad, and be left there to deal with the locals. .

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      Ok, so your a silly hateful leftist….got it! But, like the efforts in this story your are inept to do anything. 😛

  16. ah says:

    I’m sorry but I’m not going to forget the millions of people slaughtered by the Germans…the worst holocaust that ever happened….nope by the German standards he was treated to a spa day.

    1. Von Bailey says:

      Yep. Difference is that Germany didn’t go into denial about it. They helped prosecute the people who did it and made laws to try and keep it from ever happening again. Here in the USA, we let the war criminal get on national television, brag about his crimes and say that he would do it again; and we do nothing. Somehow Germany accepting responsibility for their actions and doing something about it gives them more respect in my eyes than a country that brags about breaking international laws and tries to justify it with facile rationales. But that’s just me and the millions of Americans who want to be able to be proud of our country for demonstrating the virtues and values we claim to attempt to attain.

  17. glezzery says:

    Michael Ratner, president emeritus of the Center for Constitutional
    Rights and chairman of the European Center for Constitutional and Human
    Rights said this:
    “I strongly disagree that Bush, Cheney, et al., would have a defense…”
    What the **** does this President EMERITUS mean they would not have a defense!? Of course they did. They were fighting terrorism! That seems to be missing in the article, as if memos just materialized to torture people. This is called advocacy not journalism.

    1. Von Bailey says:

      So you aren’t aware that “fighting terrorism” is not a valid defense for torture? Here’s a clue, there are no legal circumstances outside of theater, where torture is “necessary”.

      1. glezzery says:

        I am aware your reasoning makes no sense at all. I never claimed Fighting terrorism is a defense for Torture. What i meant is you dont know torture from JACK, use it improperly, don’t have facts to support a PROGRAM designed to torture people, IE you have nothing but arent smart enough to realize it.

        1. Von Bailey says:

          All I “have” is your comment. If you’re saying that your comment is nothing, fine, I agree. Otherwise you’re not making any sense. I don’t need to know torture. I KNOW that the United States of America prosecuted people for doing the same thing that these people did and they called it torture then. What ridiculous path of logic are you using that says it’s no longer torture because Americans are doing it?

  18. Freedomrequiresresponsibility says:

    All a BS ploy to help the communists in the current administration and in congress get something else on TV and between the ears of the weak minded so that they aren’t instead thinking about the fact that in our weak economy the dipshits in DC decide to flood the working-class with millions of unskilled laborers (to bring down wages) while at the same time adding to the welfare class (making a bigger tax burden on the group paying taxes).

    PS. there are literally HUNDREDS of photos on the internet of American Soldiers standing next to WMDs and materials used in the manufacture of WMDs….some of them manufactured in Germany (didn’t you people wonder why weeks into the ground war Germany, France and Russia all stopped complaining in the UN and pledged forces and equipment to the coalition? Their recently imported products were found in Iraq, that is why).

    Also, I would like to remind all of you, The United States is a Sovereign Nation. Stop trying to get other countries and entities involved in our politics, if it were up to you people we’d still be sucking up to the crown…

    1. Von Bailey says:

      You should change your name. You have no idea what responsibility is if you think that men who approved and created a torture program is a BS ploy. They committed crimes and thus should be put on trial. You dismissing that is contrary to your moniker. Am I surprised your a hypocrite? No, just pointing it out.

      1. PepperPatriot says:

        Yawn, you view it as torture. I see it for what it was, legal interrogation. You are blinded by your leftist hate…I get that, but it bullshit. But your take on it and even my take on it does not matter. The case is closed as far as domestic review and European court(s) have no authority or reach into the US, end of story. So, you can sit on a leftist website and masturbate to thoughts of what you think should happen or “You can suck it up cupcake” and look to the future and the real threats to civilization.

        1. Von Bailey says:

          That’s because you’re a hypocrite and I’m not. If the US called it torture when it was done to US soldiers then it’s also torture when the same thing is done to someone who is not a US soldier. Only a hypocrite would see it differently, thus explaining your perspective. Your arguments are the same ones used by banana republics in the last century to protect the criminals in their countries from international law, so you just expose more of your hypocrisy or ignorance of human history.

          World leaders who believe that they are above international law and the idiots who try to mitigate their crimes (i.e. the Bush Administration and you, respectively) are the real threats to civilization and exactly why I point out the stupidity of your arguments.

          1. PepperPatriot says:

            You do know we water board our SEALs and other special forces right? I guess we torture them as well? How clueless can you be? Frankly, it is disgusting to have the term torture watered down and misused. You dont seem to understand that Water Boarding was the harshest interrogation we performed. The Japanese tortured, starved and slave labored captives. Yes, they also water boarded people and I am sure they also spoke harshly to captives….does that make that torture? So, I will say again…..we water board our own as part of training…our own people and they volunteer for it. That is harsh and very unpleasant, but that is not torture. There is a lot of real torture going on the middle east right now, how about focusing on that.

            1. Von Bailey says:

              Yes I do know that the US water boards our SEALs and other special forces. Your comment makes the ridiculous assumption that if someone is trained to resist a certain form of torture it no makes that form of torture torture. That’s the stupid and self serving logic that a torturer or torture apologist might make. A person with integrity would note that it makes no difference at all.

              You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the US prosecuted and executed people for water boarding and called it torture at the time. You ignorant explanation doesn’t explain why it was torture then and not now. Just an insistence that hypocrisy is supposed to be ignored to justify disgusting illegal acts for your country.

        2. Kevin Sisson says:

          yawn,,, go to bed bonzo…

    2. PepperPatriot says:

      Well said!

  19. jas12345678 says:

    My question about illegal detention is why is President Barack Obama not also implicated? Many of the same people who were detained under Bush are still being detrained under Obama.

    1. Von Bailey says:

      This isn’t about “illegal detention” it’s about torture. There is a vast difference.

      1. jas12345678 says:

        So illegal detention is okay? Makes a lot of sense especially since it is your guy who is still doing it.

        1. Von Bailey says:

          No, I’m just not going to be distracted from the torture. You want to talk about Obama and his illegal acts, go find an article about them and rant away. This article is about Bush Administration and the torture that they committed.

          1. PepperPatriot says:

            It was not torture and it is not illegal detention. When you wage war getting held till the war is over is nothing new, strange or illegal. You might feel it is, but that does not make it so. …and you will say, but this war will not end any time soon. I say, sucks to be a Muslim terrorist.

  20. John McMickle says:

    An to think all those same lefties would be hollering why didn’t we press hared for information if there had been another attack. Try Feinstein and every Democrat on her committee for treason and put them all in Leavenworth for life although is some cases due to age that would only be a few years.

    1. Von Bailey says:

      I find it incredibly disingenuous when “righties” have to tell “lefties” what they would have done if the world were somehow different, as if they have some power that gives them the ability to know this kind of thing. It’s pathetic and desperate because it deals with fantasies instead of reality, but apparently it’s the only place their ideas work.

      1. John McMickle says:

        Actually I live in reality the absolute best way to make terrorist groups peaceful is to make them dead. A lot of liberals find that solution terrible and want to negotiate with terrorists which has never proved to produce anything beneficial. the best way to win a war it to destroy the enemies will and ability to continue. It is a time proven method that has always worked in the past when employed.

        1. Von Bailey says:

          …and the absolute best way to create more is to torture and kill innocent people like the USA did. The idea that you can “kill all the terrorists” is just as, if not more, stupid as torturing.

          1. John McMickle says:

            Do you not understand the concept of destroying the will to fight, you kill them stop spending so much time worrying about collateral damage. Make it known if you are within the burst radius of the artillery shell, rocket , or bomb you are considered part of that fighting force. You will make people think before giving aide.

            “The idea that you can “kill all the terrorists” is just as, if not more, stupid as torturing.”

            Follow the absolute same rules they follow. That is much worse than anything we ever did. Water boarding is done routinely in survival and resistance training, to our own personnel. What was done was not torture, it caused no permanent damage. Sleep deprivation is not torture. Being uncomfortable becuase you are cold or naked is not torture. Being subjected to loud noise is not torture.

            They are breeding like rats, kill them as fast as possible. Talking has never and will never work.

            1. Von Bailey says:

              Nothing that you said either justifies torture or makes it legal because Americans did it. It’s really kind of pathetic and cowardly spelled out the way you put it but I doubt very much if you see that. You appear to be blinded with fear and killing millions of people to absolve your fear is your only recourse in your mind. That’s disgustingly pathetic and cowardly and ignores the fact that the other side has psychotics just like you and are willing to do the same thing making your insane strategy moot, but you don’t see that either. Our country’s problem is that we’ve actually elected people like you. Narrow minded bigots driven by their fear.

            2. John McMickle says:

              They did not torture anyone in a legal definition of the word. Some members of the military are waterboarded as part of training. I have not seen where there was any treatment more harsh than that.

              “You appear to be blinded with fear and killing millions of people to absolve your fear is your only recourse in your mind.”

              Well when ISIS is holding a knife to your liberal throat, I will not shoot them let’s see how that works out for you.

              Now you say I am cowardly because I am not willing to kill those that would kill us given the opportunity, at least I am willing to do something. What is your solution give them tea and cookies, then hope they want to be friends? I will not work. People like ISIS only understand one language and that is force.

              Are you a veteran or just some ideological sheltered person that has never seen the way the real world works. I bet you think the rules the British use now are just great, the interrogators are not even allowed to raise their voices at the detainee. How much useful information do you think they will get doing things that way?

              You do not go to war to play nice, you go to win. You do not send people into combat with one hand tied behind their back. Ideology is great, but it gets people killed in the real world.

              You want to negotiate with ISIS fine go ahead. The best position to negotiate from is a position of strength, not just moral high ground. Me I would much prefer to eliminate the threat, that creates the position of strength.

            3. Von Bailey says:

              More irrelevant fear mongering that doesn’t in any way justify torture. The fact is that talking to them (not torturing or offering them ice cream) is what actually got any real information at all. That’s what the person who got meaningful information said, he talked to them. He didn’t torture them. The CIA then came in and tortured the people that were giving information and then took credit for getting the same information that was gotten without torture. That’s what the Senate Report says and no one has been able to refute that WITH EVIDENCE at all.

              If ISIS was holding a knife at my throat you’d be running like a coward in the other direction hoping that they take their time with me so you have time to get away. That’s how cowards act. Then they make the false claims about the futility of saving someone to mitigate their cowardly actions, just like you did in your post.

              The US is not at war so spare me your histrionics and hyperbole. Stop telling me what I want because you can’t demonstrate your cowardly ideas that don’t do anything except increase the amount of dead bodies for you to feel safe have any merit. It’s pathetic and still doesn’t do anything except expose your irrational fears.

            4. John McMickle says:

              “That’s what the Senate Report says and no one has been able to refute that WITH EVIDENCE at all.”

              that report was a partisan report, the investigation was done reviewing documents only Not one person was interviewed. If no one was interviewed and Dianne Feinstein had an agenda, and Dianne Feinstein always has an agenda, it is probably very one sided and biased.

              “That’s what the person who got meaningful information said, he talked to them. He didn’t torture them. The CIA then came in and tortured the people that were giving information and then took credit for getting the same information that was gotten without torture.”

              From an unnamed source in a report that is very probably biased based on politics.

              “The fact is that talking to them (not torturing or offering them ice cream) is what actually got any real information at all.”

              If you think you can just set across the table and ask questions to gain information you are wrong. They have no incentive to tell you anything. They will set there and recite the equivalent of name, rank and serial number. You will not get information.

              “If ISIS was holding a knife at my throat you’d be running like a coward in the other direction hoping that they take their time with me so you have time to get away. That’s how cowards act.”

              You did not answer my question are you a veteran or just another arm chair quarterback? You are quick to call people cowards. Have you ever been in the service or are you one of those that enjoys your freedoms,but hates those that ensured those freedoms?

              “The US is not at war so spare me your histrionics and hyperbole. Stop telling me what I want because you can’t demonstrate your cowardly ideas that don’t do anything except increase the amount of dead bodies for you to feel safe have any merit.”

              Look at the time frame when this happened. I vividly remember where I was on September 11, 2001. We were in a war, Al Qaeda killed just under 3,000 people. There was no guarantee that there was not a follow up planned.

              You also did not address the fact that most if not all of what was done caused no permanent harm. Making someone set in a cell naked is not torture. Making someone stand for a long period is not torture. Making someone uncomfortable is not torture. Waterboarding is part of survival training, so are you saying that we are torturing our own people? Sometimes you do not have months to get information, and pressure has to be exerted.

              Again are you a veteran or an armchair quarterback, that depends on someone else to protect you?

            5. Von Bailey says:

              Calling the report “partisan” does not negate the factual information in it. It’s simply a pathetic attempt to avoid the facts that torture was done. The fact that people are trained to resist a form of torture does not mean that it’s no longer torture. That’s stupid. Forcing food up someone’s anus has no medical function whatsoever, it is simply anal rape. Anal rape as a captive is torture. Do they train for that too? You still haven’t explained how the US can put someone on prosecute and execute someone for water boarding, call it torture and then somehow, magically, it’s not torture when the US does the same thing. You just ignore it and wave the flag as if that answers everything.

              No one was interviewed because there were 6 million documents and emails to get information from. Correspondence and emails that were quoted detailing the torture that was done. You don’t need anyone to testify if you have their words in documents that they signed telling what they’ve done.

              Ali Soufan, of the FBI obtained a confession from Salim Hamdan, accused of being a driver and bodyguard for Osama bin Laden. He did this without torture. So contrary to your fear based logic, you can get information from terrorists without torturing them. That’s how Ali Soufan did it and it worked. There isn’t a shred of evidence anywhere that they got information for torture that stopped any terrorist attack or helped capture any terrorist. That’s just your fear based imagination making things up to make you feel better about the USA doing incredibly disgusting acts.

              The idea that only someone who served has a right to condemn war crimes is as stupid a the rest of your rant.

            6. John McMickle says:

              “Calling the report “partisan” does not negate the factual information in it. It’s simply a pathetic attempt to avoid the facts that torture was done.”

              No what is says is that not every fact was included. A prosecutor does not present mitigating facts to the jury. That is exactly what went on here. Dianne Feinstein and Obama have agendas and this report was meant to support that agenda, the truth has nothing to do with the release of the report. It is the truth according to Dianne Feinstein. It was not the absolute truth.

              “No one was interviewed because there were 6 million documents and emails to get information from. Correspondence and emails that were quoted detailing the torture that was done.”

              That means they can take the statement in any context they want even if their interpretation is incorrect. Dianne Feinstein has a grudge for the CIA because she claims they had hacked the computers in her office. Feinstein is biased and a hypocrite of the first order she and Pelosi were receiving briefings while this was going on, but seem to have a very selective memory.

              “Ali Soufan, of the FBI obtained a confession from Salim Hamdan, accused of being a driver and bodyguard for Osama bin Laden. He did this without torture.”

              How long did it take? Did Hamdan think that enhanced interrogation was a possibility? A confession is not everything, we need information about things being planned, not just what they have done. The real need is for information about things being planned. This is not about criminal prosecution, it is about preventing future attacks there is a difference.

              “The idea that only someone who served has a right to condemn war crimes is as stupid a the rest of your rant.”

              No what it means is you were not going to be the one going in somewhere with little or no information and getting shot at. Until you have put yourself in that position you cannot fully appreciate the situation. It is very easy to complain about collateral damage when it is not you or your friends taking heavy fire and having to call someone in rear area to get permission to return fire. It means your opinion is that of a Monday morning quarterback. It means you have no idea what the job is but you are more than willing to tell someone doing the job how it needs to be done. If you are not willing to stand on that line and defend the country possibly at the cost of your life, be very careful about judging those that are willing to do that job. Why should those that are doing the job face additional risk, because your sense of right and wrong are offended, they are the ones with everything on the line while you are setting in your office or home.

            7. Von Bailey says:

              Well, since you simply avoid explaining why when someone else water boards it’s torture but when America does it it’s somehow less than torture, I have to assume that you’re simply a hypocrite who refuses to acknowledge their hypocritical nature.

              Explain sticking tubes up their anus to feed them when there is no medical necessity for that in any circumstance. Explain locking someone in a coffin for over a hundred hours. To say that these things leave no last harm is simply stupid. Explain about 20% of them being totally innocent of anything and some of them even being our own informants. Your arguments are ridiculous to anyone not cowering in fear.

              As far as the rest of your diatribe, it’s nothing except fear based delusions assuming that the world is so scary that no rules apply when your fear manifests. It’s pathetic and cowardly but you apparently have lots of practice denying reality to facilitate it.

              Thanks for the demonstration.

            8. John McMickle says:

              “Well, since you simply avoid explaining why when someone else water boards it’s torture but when America does it it’s somehow less than torture, I have to assume that you’re simply a hypocrite who refuses to acknowledge their hypocritical nature.”

              That is your opinion, I have never said it was torture when others used that method. We do it to certain people in training, so is it torture when done in training to teach people to resist. You have never addressed that point. Waterboarding is designed to be unpleasant. So are other methods used, they are designed to encourage cooperation.

              Torture leaves permanent physical damage. The beatings and physical abuse that was endured by POW’s in Vietnam that resulted in broken bones and permanent loss of motion in limbs is torture. There is a being difference between that and making someone uncomfortable.

              You want to whine about a few terrorists being mistreated. What do we do if a terrorist group acquires a nuclear, chemical, biological weapon and we have reliable information it is going to be used in the US. Do we be nice to the person we catch and take the chance of it being used, or do we use enhanced interrogation method and get answers. Also keep in mind that when asked for his opinion Alan Dershowitz said it was acceptable. Now Dershowitz is not known for being a conservative, he is to the left of center on his politics.

            9. Von Bailey says:

              I”m not having an argument about whether or not they tortured anyone or held anyone illegally. There is evidence that proves that they did and your denial pathetic attempts at redefining words doesn’t change that in the least except in your delusions.

  21. Kajsa Williams says:

    They are right to file these charges. I think it is appropriate that it comes from Germany….. they know a break down of civilization when they see one. They are qualified to identify this type of “mistake”.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      LOL, the insanity of the left is amazing!

  22. John Smith says:

    Obama continued all of it and killed many more children with drones.

    1. Von Bailey says:

      Not sure how that’s relevant, but whatever, start proceedings to have Obama impeached. While we’re at it, we should also prosecute high ranking members the Bush Administration and CIA for war crimes.

      1. PepperPatriot says:

        LOL, I wish Obama would be impeached, but it will not happen. Same thing with the leftist wet-dream of persecuting war crimes against the US for the post 9/11 enhanced interrogation. Anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.

  23. fanciladi says:

    This is crap!

  24. Steve Miller says:

    Saying a criminal complaint has been filed may be misleading. In
    the US that means a prosecutor has formally instituted criminal
    proceedings in a court. As far as I can tell from the article, the
    European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights is a private
    organization. In the US their “complaint” would amount to nothing
    more than a suggestion or request by a private individual that a
    prosecutor file charges. It’s still the prosecutor’s decision. Of
    course a high profile legally researched request might put a
    prosecutor under political pressure and if the legal analysis is well
    developed, give the prosecutor a road map for such charges. But the
    prosecutor would still be under an ethical duty not to file charges
    unless they appeared legally sound and likely to result in a
    conviction. However I have no idea how the German legal system works
    and whether a complaint by private persons has a greater legal
    significance than in the US. But I’d guess the headline should be
    “Germans” rather than “Germany” files a criminal complaint,
    meaning some private people think Bush/Cheney broke criminal laws and
    are complaining, as opposed to a prosecutor, acting as the German
    state’s representative, is trying subject them to criminal penalties.

  25. Marek Edelman says:

    Nuremburg awaits…

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      …and it will wait forever.

  26. Jonathan Falk says:

    They can share a jail block with President Obama and the others who ordered drone strikes that have killed and maimed thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan, including hundreds of children.

  27. Ken Warren says:

    The headline asserted something that the article itself did not support. “Germany” in no way filed charges against these men.

  28. rejco says:

    The horrifying crimes committed by War Criminals & Mass Murderers George Bush and his Coalition of the Willing are beyond belief!

  29. Dan Courtney says:

    Finally, someone with the balls to take a legal stand against this Illegal and abusive use of power. Let’s hope they can proceed even without having these thugs in custody.

  30. Eric Crawford says:

    I’m centrist, and I find both sides of this coin ridiculous.

    Germany is a pot calling the kettle black. They are the nation that has the least claim to complaining about war crimes. They’ll need about 100 years before WWII is totally forgotten.

    The right wing, on the other hand, believe most people are ultimately worthless. They only care about themselves, capitalism, and a warped version of “justice” which involves torture. The far left also use torture, but the far right have done the absolute most. Like Nazi Germany. Which, again, is ironic because Germany has a problem with our fascists. Look, moral of the story: all fascists suck and all hypocrisy sucks.

  31. Nrmd says:

    The most hatable man on the earth is Dick Cheney. No punishment is enough for his notable arragant crimes. Having said that, he was still our VP and no other country has any right to indict him for any war crimes. US can but won’t. So this article is laughable. No one can indict any of them. So Stop publishing such nonsense folks. First indict ISIS and Other bad elements who killing and torturing millions, If you have guts go after them.

  32. doug_w says:

    Everything that went on under Bush/Cheney is still going on today. Yes, Bush and Cheney are war criminals, and 0bama is just as much one as they are.

  33. HypnoToad says:

    How about a good old fashioned public crucifixion for these criminals (not those who were ordered to torture, but the ranking members that gave the orders). Since we have an admittance by Cheney to torture, I think the punishment should fit the crime.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      Congrats for being a wonderful example of just how nutty the left can be!

  34. MURICA says:

    I’m pretty sure the Germans have learned what is and what isn’t a war crime by now.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      You would think… If so then this is the last we will hear of this stupid story. In the end, does not matter. Nothing will come of this, its just the left masturbating.

  35. Rabidopsis says:

    Just so you’re all aware, this is just some law society concerned with human rights wagging the finger at America’s monsters. They don’t represent the country, they’re not important people, they can be freely ignored. “Germany” is doing nothing. “A couple German lawyers” are saying a lot and also doing nothing.

  36. Taleisin says:

    Maybe it is time the rest of the world thinks about sanctions against the US.

    1. PepperPatriot says:

      That is almost as stupid as the story above.

      1. Taleisin says:

        Let me guess. A closet-gay Fox news watcher from Amercia. Bet you voted for Romney. lol

        1. PepperPatriot says:

          Actually if you had any reasoning abilities at all you would note I found this stupid leftist dump of a site. I get most of my news online and from a multitude of sources. I am actually primarily libertarian. But, you are right about one thing, no I did not vote for the statist POS that is Obama. He like this story above is a failure.

  37. PepperPatriot says:

    I will skip more leftist garbage like the story above. I am sure it is about as stupid at the ‘news story’.

  38. sevven says:

    Tiffany Willis, why is this article titled as: “Germany Files War Crimes Charges..”? Is the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights the government of Germany now??
    Don’t get me wrong. I agree that these people are war criminals, and I think they should all be indicted, but, why mislead your readers with a bogus headline such as this?? Smh..

  39. Sasha says:

    Headline: Germany Files War Crimes Charges

    “The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR; German: Europäisches Zentrum für Verfassungs- und Menschenrechte) is a human rights organisation founded in Berlin in 2007 by a group of lawyers. ” – wikipedia

    Oh, look, and it’s written by the Editor-In-Chief. Well, so much for the credibility of this site. Don’t believe bullshit just because it makes you feel happy.

  40. harmonikasavingsbond says:

    These people deserve their very own ovens.

  41. patriot_act says:

    Ain’t that a bitch! No wonder they all look like they’re taking one in the heinie in that photo!

  42. Jason Stavenes says:

    About time! hate any politician who lies to start a war and gets american soldiers killed! lets deport these douches

  43. Jeff Putterman says:

    As an American citizen who pays my share of taxes and votes in every election, I demand our government stop harboring these criminals and immediately extradite them to stand trial for their crimes against humanity.

  44. PepperPatriot says:

    This story wins the most pointless and stupid thing on the internet! Nothing will come of this circle jerk.

  45. wunmansho says:

    I isn’t it interesting how were always encouraged to chase after the wrong thing? The real crime is 9/11 itself. It not only identifies the executive branch as a rogue and treasonous operation it also makes the US the world most significant terrorist. Cumon folks. Whining about those murderous jihadis who think your laughable fools for considering thier ‘rights’ when they have no such compunctions is choosing to bury your head in a game of tiddlywinks. The rogue executive branch obviously continues to this day. Barack Obama obviously has some different ideas but is every bit as undemocratic as the bush murderers and thier ‘angel in the whirlwind’ and is essentially a 1 / 2 punch against the United States and its people. The fact is government in this country has become a very bad thing. It is historical fact. Those in charge are ALWAYS responsible for the downfall of thier societies. In the end we are as well if we allow it.

  46. Cris Friar says:

    These jerks are all untouchable, nothing will happen to them. If there is a hell, I hope they burn forever! jerkwads!

  47. Bob P says:

    LIES LIES LIES.. What this is, Is a man in America filed Charges in Germany for war crimes against these guys.. Why does the left have to lie to their readers.

  48. Bob P says:

    Now for the Truth. The suit isn’t filed by Germany. Its filed by The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights. A New York Based liberal group made up of

    Michael Ratner (Chairman)

    is President Emeritus of the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), a
    non-profit legal organization dedicated to advancing and protecting the
    rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Universal
    Declaration of Human Rights. Michael Ratner was co-counsel in
    representing Guantanamo Bay detainees in the United States Supreme
    Court in 2004. His leadership in the arena of human rights continues to
    strengthen the role of the international rule of law to promote justice
    and oppose armed aggression. Over the last four decades CCR has lent
    its expertise and support to virtually every popular movement for
    social and racial justice. CCR combats the illegal expansion of executive power and the American
    torture programs and represents victims of torture,
    rendition and domestic spying. Ratner is the author of many books and
    articles. He
    has taught law at Yale Law School and Columbia University Law School.
    He is also the co-host of the popular radio program “Law and
    Disorder.” The recipient of many honors, he was also included in The
    National Law Journal’s list of “100 of the Most Influential Lawyers in

    Lotte Leicht (Vice-Chairwoman)

    is Human Rights Watch’s
    EU Advocacy Director and Director of the organization’s Brussels
    Office, responsible for strategic advocacy vis-à-vis European
    governments, the
    European Union and other international and regional inter-governmental
    organizations since 1994. She has conducted numerous investigations
    into, and written reports
    about, human rights and humanitarian law violations in conflict zones
    the world. Lotte Leicht has published articles in various newspapers and
    magazines. She is co-editor of the book “Monitoring Human Rights in
    Comparing International Standards and Mechanisms”. Besides she teaches
    international humanitarian law and is member of several advisory boards
    such as the Advisory Board of the
    European Inter – University Centre for Human Rights and Democratisation,
    the Advisory Board of the
    North-South Committee of the Heinrich Boell Foundation in Berlin, the
    Advisory Council of the Kofi
    Annan Fellowship in Global Governance or the Board of Crisis Action in

    Dieter Hummel (Council Member)

    Dieter Hummel is a leading labour lawyer in
    Germany. He is part of a national network of prominent labour lawyers who are
    advising trade unions and defending social and labour rights on a legal and
    advocacy level. Hummel has written several books and articles on labour
    rights, trade unions, and social rights. As the long-time president of the
    German Democratic Jurists, he also works in the area of national security and
    human rights and civil liberties.

    1. Bob P says:

      These idiot have brought suits before against the Bush Administration. Never won.. I think they are funded by Soros If I had to guess.

    2. Bob P says:

      What was really funny was to read all the liberal comments attacking conservatives post in here saying “Fox news Lies”

  49. joe ebbitt says:

    It is heartening to think that something would come of this . But, this “European center for constitutional and human rights” just sounds like a paper tiger. Hopefully, the hubris with which the leadership changed the law to allow torture will not go unpunished. Albeit I certainly don’t want a European Court to jail an American President and I Guess his staff gets a pass ,too. The unlawful acts must be brought to a Court and made public.
    As it is now none of “them” travel to Europe or Canada, Bush does go to Africa and does his cute little “monkey dance”. But that’s it , Cheney canceled a trip to Canada. The rest of them? Their idea of a night out is going on FOX and telling everyone “Obama’s doing it wrong”.

  50. shatto says:


    The last time Democrats went to war promising the complete utter
    destruction of the enemy was when Franklin Delano Roosevelt
    declared war on Japan and Germany on December 8, 1941.
    We are witnessing a declaration of war against George W. Bush,
    his administration and any government employee that did anything
    Democrats now think of as wrong.
    They would like to do an ISIS thing, but will settle for jail.

  51. wingr47 says:

    Does Nuremberg ring a bell? “I was just following orders”? It didn’t wash then, it shouldn’t now. I’m almost 63 now and have a very good memory of how the country has changed in those years. We have let subhuman politicians with personal agendas use fear to make Us do some very stupid things. The best brain and the ability to reason is wasted on humans. We just can’t escape the sandbox mentality of ME ME ME ME. Prosecute and jail these SOB’s as the criminals They are.

  52. Ryan says:

    Germany files these charges like the United States nukes Iraq. Just because a group or non governmental agency wishes it, the fact remains that they are not the authority or ones in a position to make it happen. You are even less credible than what you claim Fox News to be.

  53. Sofa Kingdom says:

    There is a video where Obama himself speaks out about how people were tortured under the Bush administration and how it was wrong. Guantanamo Bay was a torture base. Water boarding was highly used. Sick fucks like Bush should be in prison. That coke head screwed up our country so bad. His many war crimes are sickening.

  54. joe ebbitt says:

    the European center for constitutional and human rights filed charges, not Germany. Big deal, the E.U. version of the ACLU can as easily be ignored as any other institute. Nullification thru delays, inundate them with paper work or just schedule court dates years apart.

  55. Brian H says:

    Germany: A country of many war criminals calling the kettle black. Isn’t that special.

  56. dtjump says:

    This is a human Rights organization with no legal authority, whatsoever!

  57. Going Strong says:

    Amazing it takes someone in Germany to do what should have happened years ago in and by the U.S.

    Here’s hoping the process will find cause to indict, try and convict!

  58. atunionbob says:

    Time and time again Germany HAS NOT filed charges against Bush and Cheney. This is a rumor and false. Get the facts right people.

  59. penny0314 says:

    I have been calling for the trials of these three for years. They are corrupt, evil war criminals. It is my devout wish that they be tried and punished.

  60. Don Alfera says:

    put them all in a location in Texas and then just bring in a drone so nobody has to waste any personal time, just a quick fly in and then it is Miller time. The terrorists would be gone. Yep, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of the gang, the last big BBQ in the sky.

  61. sequence says:

    Hope is on! Please, God, make it happen!

  62. thoomfoote says:

    Wow! The headline says Germany filed the charges implying the goverment filed the charges.. The text says another thing. Stupid, wrong, inaccurate headlines used for sensationalism. This is an example of why bloggers cannot be considered journalists because they display no ethics.

  63. Joe Schmoe says:

    Sure, Germany, what the heck have they ever done posiitive?

  64. James Evans says:

    When is the US Attorney General and Obama Administration going to do the right think and follow suit??

  65. PepperPatriot says:

    And nothing came of it!